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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #100 on: December 16, 2022, 02:43:54 AM »
Of course "the developer does not collect any data". It says so right in the privacy policy. The club is the one who can "access, retrieve and direct the use" of data. "Direct the use" is a fancy term for exploit.

It says you can go in after every event and have your participation deleted. I could see John doing that and getting thrown out of yet another club.

But why should one have to go through the hassle of this just to keep score?

I have yet to experience mandatory phone scoring, but I am not interested in fiddling about with getting my phone out, which I don't carry, and messing around with glasses just to have unofficial live scoring. Since when has live scoring been deemed so important? My mantra is generally the fewer obstacles etc between the golfer and the course the better. We seem to think adding carts, yardage guns, phones, music, caddies, ball washers, benches etc makes for a better golf experience. It al seems a bit out of hand. It doesn't impress me.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 02:48:03 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #101 on: December 16, 2022, 07:49:41 AM »
Grandma’s gain is the game’s loss. Another vestige gone. >:(

Ben Hollerbach

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #102 on: December 16, 2022, 09:15:19 AM »
Is anyone else confused as to what golf apps have to do with cameras? Or is just a comparative reference, like saying golf apps are worse than puppies?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #103 on: December 16, 2022, 09:20:36 AM »
Cameras are the worst thing that happened to phones until the golf app. I’m glad I lived the majority of my life with neither.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #104 on: December 16, 2022, 09:46:42 AM »
We seem to think adding carts, yardage guns, phones, music, caddies, ball washers, benches etc makes for a better golf experience. It al seems a bit out of hand. It doesn't impress me.
In other words, you're getting old.

"Damn these kids with their 'tees' and such. Real men hit the ball off the ground or make a little pile of sand and whack it."
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #105 on: December 16, 2022, 10:35:13 AM »
We seem to think adding carts, yardage guns, phones, music, caddies, ball washers, benches etc makes for a better golf experience. It al seems a bit out of hand. It doesn't impress me.
In other words, you're getting old.

"Damn these kids with their 'tees' and such. Real men hit the ball off the ground or make a little pile of sand and whack it."


In other words, you think golf needs “more” to stay relevant.
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #106 on: December 16, 2022, 10:50:57 AM »
We seem to think adding carts, yardage guns, phones, music, caddies, ball washers, benches etc makes for a better golf experience. It al seems a bit out of hand. It doesn't impress me.
In other words, you're getting old.

"Damn these kids with their 'tees' and such. Real men hit the ball off the ground or make a little pile of sand and whack it."


In other words, you think golf needs “more” to stay relevant.

Exactly. Some folks think more is automatically better. Sometimes I agree, when it comes to golf I don't. It has been easy to avoid the more is better crowd, but it's spreading....in the name of progress.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #107 on: December 16, 2022, 12:45:43 PM »

In other words, you think golf needs “more” to stay relevant.
No. Not at all. I'm only saying that times change. Dress codes change, too, but isn't "more."


Exactly. Some folks think more is automatically better. Sometimes I agree, when it comes to golf I don't. It has been easy to avoid the more is better crowd, but it's spreading....in the name of progress.
No, the opposite of "exactly" as it's incorrect. That's not how I feel about it at all.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #108 on: December 16, 2022, 12:45:58 PM »
JK:

I'd love to see how you qualify a bid for gov't work that you didn't get awarded! 


I was the PM on a clubhouse expansion project that had as a neighbor & objector a retired attorney - he was not land use counsel but still.


After fighting with him for 18 months over points of order, noise from the exterior terrace when we had outdoor dining - he lived 200 yards away - he obtained our approval to increase dining and locker room sizes.


They sold their unit that month.


He was just a d!ck.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #109 on: December 16, 2022, 12:47:10 PM »
They sold their unit that month.
Or he was just concerned about the change to the resale value of his unit.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #110 on: December 16, 2022, 12:54:13 PM »
JK:

I'd love to see how you qualify a bid for gov't work that you didn't get awarded! 





Hasn't happened in the 93 years we've been in business. I doubt that I would handle it well.

Jeff Segol

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras. (long post)
« Reply #111 on: December 16, 2022, 04:15:38 PM »
I also hate having to keep score on my phone, as not having to deal with it was one of the things I enjoyed about being on the golf course. Nevertheless, I will make these arguments in favor of phone scoring:


My club (at Forrest Richardson's Baylands Golf Links in Palo Alto) is totally run by volunteers. The hardest thing to get people to do is run the tournaments. Phone scoring makes it easier, because the tournament chairman doesn't have to sit with a laptop until play is completed, entering in scores in a scoring program to determine who won. Phone scoring releases people from that burden, and makes guys more willing to do the other work (checking entries, setting up tee times, etc.) of running an event. For those of you lucky enough to be in private clubs, that shouldn't be an issue, because having the pros run your tournaments is part of what you're all paying for.


That said, the change makes me sad, as one of the fun parts of a tournament in the old days was sitting with a beer opposite the bulletin board outside the pro shop, and watching my good friend Rich Bin (former pro when the course was just Palo Alto Muni) write in everybody's scores in his lovely golf pro calligraphy, as a bunch of us stood around and critiqued the quality of the play. Now, a lot of the guys in our club head for their cars as soon as they hole out on 18, and have their scores verified via Golf Genius. We've lost some of the camaraderie of the club as a result. Since the renovation, the new operator of the course really isn't involved in running our tournaments, so the pros don't help us out. He gives us a good price, so I guess I have to deal with it.


That said, thanks to Forrest's excellent work, and the pandemic, our club has grown substantially, including a lot of younger guys who are sticks, are fun to play with and add to the club. My observation is that they can't spend all day at the course, even for a tournament, because wives and kids demand their time. If phone scoring makes it a little easier for them to participate, I'm willing to put up with it. We have to remember the doldrums the golf business was in prior to the pandemic, partly due to the time required. If we don't get younger people to play, there won't be course or clubs for us old farts to play.


Just my .02




John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #112 on: December 16, 2022, 05:43:49 PM »
Jeff,


That is a beautiful story. Thank you.

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #113 on: December 17, 2022, 09:13:30 AM »
Show up for a tournament and I'm told that I need to download an app to keep score. When I declined I was told that someone in my foursome must for us to play. Since everyone in the world isn't an asshole that wasn't a problem.


My issue: The golf course is the one place where I have sanctuary from my phone. Now as a golfer I am being asked to find it, look at it, and finally post my score after every hole. I don't know about you but nothing quite like getting a text to disrupt a lovely day. Why?


Because everyone loves it. You know exactly where you stand during the round. The pros no longer have to collect cards and write down scores. I'm seriously considering never playing in another event again.


A win/win for everyone.

Oh John John John John John....

When we play tournaments we have to keep score. What's the difference between pulling the card out of your back pocket and writing down the score and pulling your phone out of your pocket and tapping "6"?  ;D

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #114 on: December 17, 2022, 09:35:51 AM »


Oh John John John John John....

When we play tournaments we have to keep score. What's the difference between pulling the card out of your back pocket and writing down the score and pulling your phone out of your pocket and tapping "6"?  ;D


My wife can't text my paper scorecard - for starters.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #115 on: December 17, 2022, 09:50:02 AM »
Good news. The club has agreed to let me sign up for events without having to agree to the Golf Genius privacy policies. I can keep my phone off my face while golfing. Now I’ve got to work on the remaining 20 hrs in a day.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #116 on: December 17, 2022, 10:13:58 AM »
Show up for a tournament and I'm told that I need to download an app to keep score. When I declined I was told that someone in my foursome must for us to play. Since everyone in the world isn't an asshole that wasn't a problem.


My issue: The golf course is the one place where I have sanctuary from my phone. Now as a golfer I am being asked to find it, look at it, and finally post my score after every hole. I don't know about you but nothing quite like getting a text to disrupt a lovely day. Why?


Because everyone loves it. You know exactly where you stand during the round. The pros no longer have to collect cards and write down scores. I'm seriously considering never playing in another event again.


A win/win for everyone.

Oh John John John John John....

When we play tournaments we have to keep score. What's the difference between pulling the card out of your back pocket and writing down the score and pulling your phone out of your pocket and tapping "6"?  ;D


David,


You saw firsthand the disconnect between my swing and my brain. I need to keep things simple unless it is covered in bacon. I only make 6's when you're my partner.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #117 on: December 17, 2022, 01:08:21 PM »
 8)  JK,


I had similar thoughts & feelings when first confronted with mandatory Golf Genius scoring many years ago... it was in Couples Golf, when some couldn't wait for the end of dinner to find out who won... we voted with our feet, quit playing.  Since then, I've softened for all events, but I'm usually first to volunteer to keep the paper card which is usually reconciled after each nine holes.


Latest strategy of some objectors is just not entering scores till last holes completed... keeps everyone guessing
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #118 on: December 17, 2022, 01:49:32 PM »
It all started when Fuzzy first started advertising clubs for sale at Kmart.


In the next year you will see where your scoring app will interact with the camera on your phone. Just place your device in the cradle provided on your cart and be treated to a blooper reel for after round enjoyment. One guy in your club goes viral and everyone will be in on the fun.


Thank God immortality is a myth.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #119 on: December 17, 2022, 01:58:54 PM »
For the IP stealers out there. You partner with EZGO and call the app EZBloop. Carts are shipped with a sufficient number of cameras to capture action from the most unexpected angles. Bloop is an homage to what me and my buddies say when an opponent knocks one in the water. Bloop, bloop, bloop. It could even come with it's own sound effects to eliminate the need for anything close to an actual conversation.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #120 on: December 17, 2022, 02:09:54 PM »
8)  JK,
Latest strategy of some objectors is just not entering scores till last holes completed... keeps everyone guessing


Before Golf Genius these were the same guys that when asked where they stood always lied. Usually they said they were two or three better than their actual score to make it believable and hope your team started to press as a result. Every system can be exploited.


John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #121 on: December 17, 2022, 02:26:19 PM »
My scores will be posted in real time just like everyone else. I just won't be doing it.


In our first tournament using this app the same guis won that always do. Just not by as much.


Funny how the higher scores are seen as a lack of cheating.


Rather than only bitch about everything I have offered a solution. We still have a Calcutta but your winnings are donated to the charity of your choice. Do some good in the local community and eliminate the need to occasionally falsely accuse the winners of being scoundrels.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #122 on: December 17, 2022, 02:35:54 PM »
The shootout would be like the old days with everyone watching and cheering. All you need is The committee to reelect President Trump vs Planned Parenthood. 60 teams, 60 different charities. The exposure alone might improve someones life.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #123 on: December 17, 2022, 04:30:45 PM »
My wife can't text my paper scorecard - for starters.
Do not disturb mode.

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/turn-a-focus-on-or-off-iph5c3f5b77b/ios - You can even have your phone automatically turn on a  Focus mode (do not disturb mode) when you're at the golf course.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf apps. Worse than cameras.
« Reply #124 on: December 17, 2022, 04:38:39 PM »
My wife can't text my paper scorecard - for starters.
Do not disturb mode.

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/turn-a-focus-on-or-off-iph5c3f5b77b/ios - You can even have your phone automatically turn on a  Focus mode (do not disturb mode) when you're at the golf course.


You are more likely to teach a future Hall of Fame golfer than an old man how to use his phone.