Golf apps. Worse than cameras.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Noted Erik. My point was that if your kid has a phone, this app (or similar apps) is the least of your worries. There might be real reasons you might not want to use a golf app, but teenage privacy is about number 1000 on the list.

Yes, understood and agree. I think we held out until our daughter was 12 or 13. At some point it becomes socially awkward for them not to have one and they'll miss out on things (like invitations to play or hang out, etc.).

But be honest about your reasons.

Me? Or app developers? I'll assume the latter as I have no "reasons" here for anything except to support my opinion that these scorekeeping apps have some upsides.

[Michael Moore]

Can’t wait to blow up on a couple of short par 4’s and have a wedge ad sent to my phone.

Amen.

[John Kavanaugh]

This has nothing to do with scrambles. It is mandatory to even sign up for club championships, member/guests, or moonlight yoga.


If I don’t download the app I can never play in anything at the club again.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I always liked to put any routing "rules" in a sentence that always included, "All other things being equal" which of course, they never are.  But, don't be fooled, all gca's have some routing rules whether it is trendy to admit to it or not.  Some are formal, most are informal, perhaps so much so that the gca doesn't even think of it as one of their rules.


As to the question in the OP, my biggest peeve in routings are tees that are front right (or front left) of the previous green, requiring a walk back into play, and thus delaying any shot into the green from the following group.  There are safety issues, as well.  I was always told that the straight line direction to the next tee, as well as egress and exit from the green should be from the middle of the green to the back.

[Charlie Goerges]

Me? Or app developers?

Neither, just anyone not wanting to use the app. My personal example was my Luddism in woodworking by using non-powered tools. Doing it my way isn't better or purer or more in line with the spirit of the endeavor, it's just the way I like to do it. It's the same for people who don't want to use the app, or mourn the future demise of scorecards or any number of other reasons. Those are the things they like.


That said, privacy is a huge concern overall, but apps like this are far down the list as I said, just make sure you turn on "don't track" or however the setting is phrased and you'll be relatively safe in apps like this one (it pops up when you install it on an iPhone, don't know about Android).




I'm sorry John that you aren't able to play in tournaments at your club without the app. Maybe an exception can be made, that said, it might just be the cost of doing business nowadays. The wedge ad joke was good though!

[John Kavanaugh]

The Service does not support Do Not Track at this time. Do Not Track is a privacy preference that you can set in your web browser to indicate that you do not want certain information about your webpage visits collected across websites when you have not interacted with that service on the page. For all the details, including how to turn on Do Not Track, visit www.donottrack.us.

As you can see above the Do not track option is not available.

[John Kavanaugh]

The full Privacy Policy:


https://www.golfgenius.com/privacy

[Charlie Goerges]

I realize I wasn't clear. The do not track I was referring to was the cross-app tracking that all iPhones give you the ability to shut off. These are the things that will give you facebook ads for golf clubs because you're using a golf app on your phone (i.e. your joke). Yes, this app, and all apps are within the rules to track you within their own app, and they're free to use that info in a lot of ways that you and I might not like. Unfortunately, to avoid that type of tracking, you pretty much can't have any apps on your phone. I.e. that is not a problem with this app, but with all apps and hence all phones.


It's ok to not like using the scoring apps, you don't need any other reason than personal preference.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I realize I wasn't clear. The do not track I was referring to was the cross-app tracking that all iPhones give you the ability to shut off. These are the things that will give you facebook ads for golf clubs because you're using a golf app on your phone (i.e. your joke). Yes, this app, and all apps are within the rules to track you within their own app, and they're free to use that info in a lot of ways that you and I might not like. Unfortunately, to avoid that type of tracking, you pretty much can't have any apps on your phone. I.e. that is not a problem with this app, but with all apps and hence all phones.

Yes, I understood that to be the case. Maybe John will catch up sometime. This may help: https://www.macworld.com/article/344420/app-tracking-transparency-privacy-ad-tracking-iphone-ipad-how-to-change-settings.html

And for Golf Genius specifically:

[John Kavanaugh]

Erik,


They shared with GHIN what I shot without my permission. That seems like a fact.

[John Kavanaugh]

I play most of my golf with a 79 yr old that can't text. Why do guys like me and him need to learn the nuances of an iPhone to play golf? It's an ageist policy.


Most of us play tons of golf because our phone keeps us in contact with our families and businesses in case of emergency. We check our phones when we choose too. Not every hole. Putting your phone on silent is not the same as blocking all calls.

[John Kavanaugh]

So far these are my three arguments against mandatory scoring apps.


1. It will result in the layoffs of people who I love to line the pockets of strangers.


2. It is dangerous to the development of young golfers.


3. It is ageist.


None of the above even addresses the sharing of information.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

You're spiraling.

We check our phones when we choose too. Not every hole. Putting your phone on silent is not the same as blocking all calls.

Again, Do Not Disturb mode (or the equivalent on other phones) lets your wife call you for an emergency, but not other people.

1. It will result in the layoffs of people who I love to line the pockets of strangers.

Someone still has to run the event.

2. It is dangerous to the development of young golfers.

Nah.

3. It is ageist.

Keep up or get out of the way.

None of the above even addresses the sharing of information.

Which GolfGenius doesn't do.

[Amol Yajnik]

So far these are my three arguments against mandatory scoring apps.


1. It will result in the layoffs of people who I love to line the pockets of strangers.


2. It is dangerous to the development of young golfers.


3. It is ageist.


None of the above even addresses the sharing of information.

Responses to your concerns:
1) If golf club staff is getting laid off based on the fact that they don't have the responsibility of adding up scores at the end of a competition, that club has bigger issues.


2) There are many more things to be worried about for our youth rather than a golf app.  AJGA, the leading organization for youth tournaments in this country, uses Golf Genius for their scoring during their tournaments.  Apparently their leadership doesn't agree with you. https://www.ajga.org/what-to-expect-at-an-ajga-event


3) I can see your point on this one.  Perhaps an allowance could be made to have scores written down on a scorecard for those that don't want to use the phone, but then have the golf club staff (you know, the people you are worried about losing their jobs) being stationed every 3 holes to upload the scores into the system to try to keep up the "real time" aspect of the scoring.

[Michael Moore]

Of course "the developer does not collect any data". It says so right in the privacy policy. The club is the one who can "access, retrieve and direct the use" of data. "Direct the use" is a fancy term for exploit.

It says you can go in after every event and have your participation deleted. I could see John doing that and getting thrown out of yet another club.

[John Kavanaugh]

You're spiraling.

We check our phones when we choose too. Not every hole. Putting your phone on silent is not the same as blocking all calls.

Again, Do Not Disturb mode (or the equivalent on other phones) lets your wife call you for an emergency, but not other people.

1. It will result in the layoffs of people who I love to line the pockets of strangers.

Someone still has to run the event.

2. It is dangerous to the development of young golfers.

Nah.

3. It is ageist.

Keep up or get out of the way.

None of the above even addresses the sharing of information.

Which GolfGenius doesn't do.

"Keep up or get out of the way" You captured exactly how my club is making me feel. Thanks.

[Rob Marshall]

I would have a problem with it posting my score to GHIN if it really does that. My pro doesn’t post my tournament rounds. I do it myself because I enter my score with stats.

[John Kavanaugh]

Would it be a penalty for a junior golfers to receive coaching over their phone during a tournament?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Would it be a penalty for a junior golfers to receive coaching over their phone during a tournament?

Yes, basic Rules of Golf question there. That's true regardless of whether they're using their phone to enter scores or not. Pull out of the spiral, John.

[Joe Hancock]

You're spiraling.

We check our phones when we choose too. Not every hole. Putting your phone on silent is not the same as blocking all calls.

Again, Do Not Disturb mode (or the equivalent on other phones) lets your wife call you for an emergency, but not other people.

1. It will result in the layoffs of people who I love to line the pockets of strangers.

Someone still has to run the event.

2. It is dangerous to the development of young golfers.

Nah.

3. It is ageist.

Keep up or get out of the way.

None of the above even addresses the sharing of information.

Which GolfGenius doesn't do.

"Keep up or get out of the way" You captured exactly how my club is making me feel. Thanks.

It’s the last thing anyone in the golf business should ever say.

[jeffwarne]

Like Jeff said. Garbage in garbage out.


It's a pain the ass if you wear reading glasses and there is nothing worse than squinting for a few minutes then going to hit a shot.

This and it's the second line that really frosts me.


So when a kid returns home from an event mom, dad and now even grandpa already know in real time what happened?
Or my members can tune in for live updates on my latest double in a MET PGA event...
You want to know how your kid did in his junior event? Sit down and ask him or her how things are going and how their day was.
I can't even imagine the drive home knowing that my parents or my grandma already knew what I shot before I even got home.
This would suck after a bad round, but frankly it would really suck after you won a jr. event-both of which used to often occur without your parents knowing in real time.
No better feeling than surprising your parents with a trophy.




I have no problem with others staring into their devices when out on the course.
Just don't make me, and I for one think it's an awful thing to encourage kids to have MORE phone use.




My favorite part of playing in any event or round is turning OFF my phone.
Now I'm required to use it?
No. I'm not getting on board and I'm not getting left behind.


The world can wait for my 78

[John Kavanaugh]

https://adata.org/factsheet/aging-and-ada


Looks like the ADA covers age discrimination.

[Buck Wolter]

I love the USGA app --I suck at keeping score on paper for whatever reason, I always think I'll remember and do it in a couple holes but I never do. The built in GPS gives me decent yardage to the middle and my phone counts my steps so I can brag how many miles and floors of elevation I walked. Better than my leather scorecard holder in my back pocket -- that said I don't think it should be required and I try not to check my fantasy football score until the turn.

[Craig Sweet]

I don't keep score when I play but I do use the USGA app because I can down load my course and use the GPS feature.  I did this after buying new irons to get a better idea how far I was hitting each club.


Normally, I hate distance aids other than a bush or an irrigation head but I did enjoy using this GPS feature.

[Mark Kiely]

John: Perhaps your solution is a prepaid cellular line on a dedicated smart phone solely for golf. Just Googled "prepaid smart phone" and you can get a Mint Mobile line for $15/mo. Then buy a mid-range smart phone for $200-300 and you're set. Never tell anyone the phone number and only use it for the golf scoring app. Keep it in your bag but just don't forget to charge it before a tournament!