Updated Te Arai website

[Ash Towe]

https://tearai.com/


Here is the updated website.

[David_Elvins]

Very American green fees!

[jeffwarne]

Very American green fees!

even more so for Americans....
Fortunately, there is the exchange rate.


Does Bandon, Pebble, Pinehurst or any other US RESORT charge MORE for "overseas" visitors?
"We know it took a lot of extra effort and expense for you to make it here, so we'd like to add just a bit more to that....."
icky trend


Not saying the price is too high, as the market will determine that.

[Pete_Pittock]

For me, the $ amount is NZ$ which is about 60% of a US$

[Matt_Cohn]

Is it really the world's largest putting green? How large?

[David_Tepper]

Jeff W. -

I believe Oregon residents do (or at least did) get a discounted green fee at the Bandon courses. I also think residents of Hawaii get discounted green fees on many of the courses there.

DT

[Pete_Pittock]

Jeff W. -

I believe Oregon residents do (or at least did) get a discounted green fee at the Bandon courses. I also think residents of Hawaii get discounted green fees on many of the courses there.

DT

Day guests from Oregon pay the same rate as resort guests. It is a $35 discount from non-Oregonian day guests

[Tom_Doak]

Is it really the world's largest putting green? How large?

It’s very big.  I don’t know what’s the biggest.

[Pete_Pittock]

The green fees are similar to Kauri Cliffs and Cape Kidnappers, which are both $NZ692 (international)/$NZ330 (domestic). If I was still travelling for golf, I'd head down there again next winter.

[John Kavanaugh]

At what price point do the obligatory drone shots become mandatory? At 30 feet above the ground NZ looks like a one note wonder.

[Peter Flory]

Not sure if I'll ever get back to that corner of the World, but it looks like the most pleasant golf environment possible. 

[Daryl David]

The green fees are similar to Kauri Cliffs and Cape Kidnappers, which are both $NZ692 (international)/$NZ330 (domestic). If I was still travelling for golf, I'd head down there again next winter.

Cape Kidnappers and Kauri are now $795 NZD. (Before cart fee)  I know from recent experience. 

[Sean_A]

Very American green fees!

even more so for Americans....
Fortunately, there is the exchange rate.


Does Bandon, Pebble, Pinehurst or any other US RESORT charge MORE for "overseas" visitors?
"We know it took a lot of extra effort and expense for you to make it here, so we'd like to add just a bit more to that....."
icky trend


Not saying the price is too high, as the market will determine that.

I look at the domestic, in state etc rates as discounted. The overseas fee is the normal rate. The owners are not terribly smart for labelling their fees they way they do. It pisses off some people as you clearly demonstrate. They should list the full rate without the foreign label then list the discounted rates.

Ciao

[Brad Engel]

While the peak season rates are certainly not cheap (~$380 USD with the current exchange rates) the off-season rates, summer for us in the Northern Hemisphere are not egregious (~$230 USD). I visited NZ in the summer of 2017 and had pretty decent weather, somewhat like the shoulder seasons at Bandon.

[jeffwarne]

Very American green fees!

even more so for Americans....
Fortunately, there is the exchange rate.


Does Bandon, Pebble, Pinehurst or any other US RESORT charge MORE for "overseas" visitors?
"We know it took a lot of extra effort and expense for you to make it here, so we'd like to add just a bit more to that....."
icky trend


Not saying the price is too high, as the market will determine that.

I look at the domestic, in state etc rates as discounted. The overseas fee is the normal rate. The owners are not terribly smart for labelling their fees they way they do. It pisses off some people as you clearly demonstrate. They should list the full rate without the foreign label then list the discounted rates.

Ciao

I think you summed that up pretty nicely-bad labeling.

[MKrohn]

I am heading over from Australia in the New Year with a group. Given the International green fee and the fact that you have to stay on the property to play, they won't see us.

[Tom_Doak]

I am heading over from Australia in the New Year with a group. Given the International green fee and the fact that you have to stay on the property to play, they won't see us.

And you won’t see them, so your future comments about the place will be as irrelevant as the one above.


I do understand that not everyone wants to (or can) spend $$$$ to play a new course.


New golf courses are damned expensive to build, because the standard golfers expect is way too high.  But the people that develop them are not out to lose millions of dollars in the process.  If they’re going to get even a modest return on their investment, the price has to be pretty high, to the point that many golfers will say no thanks.  That’s a shame, but it doesn’t make the developers greedy.  The other option is for nobody to build new courses.

[Jim Tang]

For me, staying on site really adds to the overall experience.  Yep, it's expensive, but, there is nothing quite like waking up in the morning with the golf course just outside your door. The entire Te Arai facility looks phenomenal and I can't wait to see it once everything is in place.

[MKrohn]

I am heading over from Australia in the New Year with a group. Given the International green fee and the fact that you have to stay on the property to play, they won't see us.

And you won’t see them, so your future comments about the place will be as irrelevant as the one above.


I do understand that not everyone wants to (or can) spend $$$$ to play a new course.


New golf courses are damned expensive to build, because the standard golfers expect is way too high.  But the people that develop them are not out to lose millions of dollars in the process.  If they’re going to get even a modest return on their investment, the price has to be pretty high, to the point that many golfers will say no thanks.  That’s a shame, but it doesn’t make the developers greedy.  The other option is for nobody to build new courses.

I'm not angry about the price point its none of my concern and I like people building courses as not. I'm sure they wouldn't lose a moment's sleep over my group choosing not to go.


There are guys in our party who can't afford it, some who can but won't pay the freight and some who would. As you know we are more accustomed to the Barnbougle/King Island type facilities (and price), perhaps we have been spoilt where it's not a week's wages for a game.


With Matt Goggin building 7 Mile Beach in Hobart, Tasmania becomes an even bigger golf destination for Australians who are NZ's biggest tourist market.

[David_Elvins]

I am heading over from Australia in the New Year with a group. Given the International green fee and the fact that you have to stay on the property to play, they won't see us.

And you won’t see them, so your future comments about the place will be as irrelevant as the one above.


I do understand that not everyone wants to (or can) spend $$$$ to play a new course.


New golf courses are damned expensive to build, because the standard golfers expect is way too high.  But the people that develop them are not out to lose millions of dollars in the process.  If they’re going to get even a modest return on their investment, the price has to be pretty high, to the point that many golfers will say no thanks.  That’s a shame, but it doesn’t make the developers greedy.  The other option is for nobody to build new courses.

Tom, I think it is ok to be disappointed that New Zealand courses have no interest in the Australian market.  1.5mil tourists travel to New Zealand from Australia each year yet many golf destinations there exclusively targets the much smaller US US tourism market.


I understand your broad point about build costs but given that you can get 5 days of unlimited golf at barnbougle for the price of 1 day at Te Arai it would appear that the choice to target the American market rather than the Australian market is not just about return on investment but a conscious decision to get a return on investment by charging US style green fees to US tourists. Hard to believe there is not more than 1 way to skin a cat with these developments.

[Tom_Doak]

David:


I understand, and agree with you.


The thing is, they are very interested in the Australian market for Te Arai.  But they’ve only talked it through with the Aussies who could afford to join Tara Iti.


FWIW, Te Arai probably did cost 4x or 5x what my first course at Barnbougle cost.  Some of that is inflation, and some is for the extra width.


And also, FWIW, Australian golfers are spoiled rotten  .  Anywhere else in the world, Barnbougle and St Andrews Beach would be charging double what they do, and be plenty busy.  Your refusal to pay more keeps them in line, because those are Australian developers who share your thoughts on affordability.  But you’ll never get an American developer to understand that.


I would love to do a seaside course in NZ that’s built and priced for the locals, with little to no fairway irrigation.  Just haven’t found anyone that wants to take on the risk of that.

[jeffwarne]

New golf courses are damned expensive to build, because the standard golfers expect is way too high.

Now THAT is a topic for a thread.


To further digress from that thread, I'd say the kind of golfer who can afford,(or chooses to afford) such courses, tends to have expectations for other things as well (luxury lodging, fancy dining/bar with $$$$ wines etc., caddies, outside staff attendants/starter/Caddiemasters) etc., etc.
further driving up the cost, and the thus the expectation, into a virtuous circle.


Obviously places we revere for their simplicity would be difficult to build from scratch without incurring a loss.
Examples:Brora(15 years ago anyway), Dunaverty, Mulranny,earlier versions of Narin and Portnoo before they became slaves to their debts from their(then)new clubhouse and hole changes. etc.
Most would have a difficult time starting from scratch(buying land, building etc.)but it seems most newer courses have so many more bells and whistles that drive up the costs and IMHO distract from the golf.
The other thing is we don't hear much about courses "maturing" these days. Many of the edges and aesthetics are put in immediately to impress the magazines and raters.
All understandable, just something that drives costs upward.
And yes, I'm pretty sure I'd be a terrible developer.

[Ash Towe]

I am not sure that Te Arai are targeting US tourists. Far a start there is not enough of them, especially in winter.


In a recent article it was stated that the club has 450 members and will possibly cap it at 600. At approx $50,000 entrance fee and annual dues at $10,000 or so. That is a sound financial base I would have thought.


The green fees are very expensive by NZ standards. People may go to have a look but repeat business from locals will be another issue. You do not have to stay on site after October 2023. At that point in time both courses will be in operation. One course for members and one course for visitors. They change over each day.


Tom's idea for a cheaper seaside course would be great. If it was near Auckland it would be well received as all the city courses bar 1 are clay based.


I do wish Te Arai every success. It is a fabulous facility. Both courses look amazing. I have seen them but not played them

[Kevin Pallier]

I for one Australian are looking forward to getting to NZ to see both new North and South courses next year. "Down under" we don't have access to many Doak or C&C courses to choose from so the appeal is there from that POV.


I think the costings will inhibit repeat visitations as most Australian golfers would access Tasmania moreso for high quality public access golf. 3x Barnbougle courses, 2x King Island, and from what I read is in the pipe-works, 2x 7MB and a delayed Arm End.

[Thomas Dai]

Looks wonderful. Well done to all involved. Would I like to experience it? Absolutely. Will I? Unlikely but I’m glad it’s been built for one can always have a target or a dream and I’m fine with others getting to experience it even if I never do. Also developments like it are a great learning curve for all those involved, which can only help with other developments elsewhere in the World in the years to come.
Exclusivity however, not just in golf but in life in general, combined with very high standards/expectations rarely comes without a high price tag.
Is it realistic for developers, even if their project is a labour of love type project, to be expected to sponsor to others, be kinda philanthropic, by pricing the use of their high cost to build and run development so that it’s accessible to more of a mass market? And if it can’t fund itself then surely it’s unlikely to exist for long, which would be sad.
Atb