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Tommy Williamsen

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I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« on: October 30, 2022, 07:17:28 PM »
My daughter works a U of Michigan and has never been a football fan, at least not until she took this job at the U of MI. She says football is in the air you breathe. Yesterday she was appalled, however. A bunch of friends had a tailgate party before the MI State game. She called today and apologized. “I’m sorry Dad but I went to the tailgate party and it was on the golf course.” She told me that her first impulse was “You don’t belong here.” I remember when I played the course the guy in the pro shop apologized for the condition of some of the fairways. I’m glad A. Mac didn’t live to see this desecration.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Peter Flory

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2022, 07:38:11 PM »
It's only on 2 of the holes really. 

Sean_A

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2022, 08:01:51 PM »
Dr Mac made it a habit not to see his finished courses .

They tailgate in the rough in two areas:

Between 1 and 9...I think a gap in the 1st fairway was created for access to parking!

Between 13 and 15.

Parking used to be closed in poor weather, but I don't know if that's the case anymore.

These are great areas to park for families because there is space to goof off. It's really not a big deal. The private course next door does very well with parking fees.

Ciao
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 11:58:26 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

DFarron

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2022, 08:05:37 PM »
Leave it to Michigan to let their fans desecrate a MacKenzie masterpiece!




O-H…..I-O!!!!!!!

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2022, 08:32:42 PM »
I asked my daughter if it were only in the rough. She said nope fairways too. Hundreds of cars. 111,000 in the Big House yesterday.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jim O’Kane

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2022, 09:21:18 PM »
I played on the golf team there...briefly.


No cars were ever in the fairways back then. However in recent years, and as recent as the Penn State game 2 weeks ago, I've seen them the areas around the fairways of #1 and #15 that I haven't seen before, but never on the fairways--that's it. As far as I could tell, all the fairways and absolutely all the greens are roped off. Keeping people off the fairways from playing football and kids running around is a different story.


Sean_A has it right as far as the locations go, between 1 and 9 and around the fairways of 13, 15 and 16.


The A2 Golf and Outing Club right next door, at only 1/3 of the size, probably puts just as many cars on their land. They line cars up in the rough butting right up to the fairway on every hole. There, you have to drive on the fairway to get in and out of your spot.


At the U course, there are designated paths for entry and egress to parking spots. Those paths from State St. and South Main St. on #1 and #15 respectively don't cross any fairways. Always the rough area between them. Those paths have been there since I was there in early 80's.


You can see them clearly from aerials on Google Maps.


« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 09:24:35 PM by Jim O’Kane »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2022, 09:36:08 PM »
This has been going on for year, rabbi. It's not news; rather, it's olds.

How many home games in a year? During shoulder season? A proper superintendent would take it as a challenge to keep the course fast and firm.

Is the UM course a Mackenzie top-ten course? Top twenty?

At Wake, we built faculty housing 'twixt the Old Town and the campus, to ensure that none of those Sigma Nus would ever consider parking on Maxie's fairways.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2022, 09:36:32 PM »
Jim, given that the golf season is winding down in October did it take long for the course to heal?


[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)][/color]
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 09:45:26 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jim O’Kane

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2022, 11:33:05 PM »
Honestly, the thing I remember the most is the trash, tons of it. Couldn't play after a game or on Sunday morning, and maybe all day Sunday. Course was closed and there was trash everywhere. Sunday morning, still trash.


A couple of things about the conditions I mention down below. The conditions these days are WAY better than they were and I think they take way better care of the place than they once did. 


There is a lot more money in the program. We never had the full practice facility out there on South Main Street that you see when you look to your left walking down the monstrous par 3 12th. It's a really nice facility.


I digress...once the trash was picked up, usually by mid to late Sunday, it was business as usual, and you might be able to get out and play around 3 or 4pm. 


Since they kept cars off the fairways, the only fairway issues were ones you'd shake your heads at, like where kids had been playing football and tore some of it up. Or maybe some coals from a grill that were dumped in the rough but some made it to the fairway, and even though it was picked up, you still had some black on the fairway and some burnt grass. I'd say by Tuesday morning, you couldn't really tell so much. But it was only on those few holes; 1 (the old 10th), 9 (the old 18th), and 15 (the old 6th) mostly. Every other fairway was pretty much untouched.


And back then, the U course didn't really host many tournaments. Only one or two in the 4 years I was there. If they did, it was in the spring season, because of football.


I think the team now hosts a yearly invitational in the spring.   


My biggest gripe about it all...was the rough. Especially on 1 and 9 (the old 10 and 18 in my day).


It would be a mess for a week, likely two. It would be matted down all facing one direction from cars driving over it, all swirled around, trampled, etc.


This made it hard to cut. And then if your ball found it, you're hitting some strange shots with the rough laying down. Into the rough, with the rough, sideways, a combo of both...


It produced wildly unpredictable results and used to piss me off to no end.


I was already having enough trouble with my game at that point in my life too. That did not help.


It would take a couple of weeks for the rough to get back to "somewhat" normal where it would start to rise up from laying down and they could cut it right.


I always preferred playing in the spring because of this.


Little did I know all of that would be some of the last golf I would play for a good 10 years of my life. But, good memories still. Better now that I can go back there without any pressure as an old man and just be there and smile.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 10:14:55 AM by Jim O’Kane »

Mark Kiely

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2022, 11:42:15 PM »
Brookside in Pasadena doesn't have the MacKenzie pedigree but is also used as parking lot for UCLA games at the Rose Bowl. At least it used to be. Not sure they're drawing enough fans for it to be a necessity these days.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Steve Lapper

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 06:10:14 AM »
Parking anywhere on the course might be considered heresy, however unlike some other college golf programs above the Mason-Dixon Line, UM does an otherwise great job of funneling $$$ from it's lucrative football (ice hockey & basketball) program into the care and maintenance of it's famed golf course.

In the scheme of things, it's but a minor hardship to bear given the access to such a great golf resource for all the UM students, faculty and alumni. My daughter, a sophomore at the Ross School of Business, plays several rounds a year there and may join a club golf team one semester. She is thrilled to have a truly fun course, open and available, all but a short walking distance from her sorority. In her words, "Its a great relief from the daily grind."

FWIW, trash is now picked up the evenings of a day game, or the morning after a night game. All-in-all, the Wolverines have it right on how to lever their resources. Go Blue!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 09:41:48 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Niall C

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2022, 08:57:24 AM »
I’m glad A. Mac didn’t live to see this desecration.


Nonsense. More than any other gca both living and dead, MacKenzie revered the Old Course at St Andrews. He would have been well aware of its history, and that of other courses where golf shared the land with other uses. I very much doubt he'd have given a toss about the occasional use of part of the course for another use.


Niall

jeffwarne

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2022, 09:01:34 AM »
I’m glad A. Mac didn’t live to see this desecration.


Nonsense. More than any other gca both living and dead, MacKenzie revered the Old Course at St Andrews. He would have been well aware of its history, and that of other courses where golf shared the land with other uses. I very much doubt he'd have given a toss about the occasional use of part of the course for another use.


Niall


Exactly-seems a great way to justify part of its existence and expense.
Many courses located so well in close proximity to towns etc. have gone away and probably could've benefitted from shared usage from multiple stakeholders.
I chuckled when I saw the comments about the indignity of having to play "strange and unpredictable" shots out of the rough in the aftermath of the disaster.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 09:05:31 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jeff Schley

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2022, 09:55:19 AM »
Brookside in Pasadena doesn't have the MacKenzie pedigree but is also used as parking lot for UCLA games at the Rose Bowl. At least it used to be. Not sure they're drawing enough fans for it to be a necessity these days.
Ouch Mark! They are 7-1 and ranked #10 in the country still. On campus stadium is sorely needed, but a pipe dream. Think they could use Bel Air CC for gameday parking?  ;D
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Ben Hollerbach

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2022, 10:07:38 AM »
Jim, given that the golf season is winding down in October did it take long for the course to heal?


FYI, The course in the picture is not the MacKenzie course.

Jim O’Kane

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2022, 10:21:40 AM »
Ben, correct.


Tommy, that picture you used, btw, that is the Ann Arbor Golf and Outing club, looking at the corner of South Main Street and Stadium Blvd. You can see how they try to butt cars right up against the fairways but also look like some cars parked right on the fairways. There are people all over the place including on fairways and greens. 


Never saw it like that at the U course...ever. Folks respected the greens and the fairways, generally speaking, because they could as there was nearly triple the room and not so crowded. It was the rough that got damaged and took a couple weeks to come back.

Kalen Braley

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2022, 11:39:08 AM »
With all due respect to U of M...


He would likely be more disturbed by what has become of ANGC...just saying!  ;)

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2022, 01:23:07 PM »
Ben, correct.


Tommy, that picture you used, btw, that is the Ann Arbor Golf and Outing club, looking at the corner of South Main Street and Stadium Blvd. You can see how they try to butt cars right up against the fairways but also look like some cars parked right on the fairways. There are people all over the place including on fairways and greens. 


Never saw it like that at the U course...ever. Folks respected the greens and the fairways, generally speaking, because they could as there was nearly triple the room and not so crowded. It was the rough that got damaged and took a couple weeks to come back.


Oh, thanks. They must really need the money to let them park there. The first time I played the U course I drove into their lot.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sean_A

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2022, 08:57:32 PM »
Ben, correct.


Tommy, that picture you used, btw, that is the Ann Arbor Golf and Outing club, looking at the corner of South Main Street and Stadium Blvd. You can see how they try to butt cars right up against the fairways but also look like some cars parked right on the fairways. There are people all over the place including on fairways and greens. 


Never saw it like that at the U course...ever. Folks respected the greens and the fairways, generally speaking, because they could as there was nearly triple the room and not so crowded. It was the rough that got damaged and took a couple weeks to come back.

At least one similar photo was used in years past to demonstrate the lack of care for the course. People generally assume the worst when folks talk about using golf course for purposes other than golf. In truth, more courses should be used for other things if it makes sense. I was and am far more concerned about tree removal and expanding the greens. Parked cars is small beer. I have never seen any real damage to the course from cars. Shit, golfers taking divots causes more damage  :D .

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 10:30:52 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

Jim O’Kane

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2022, 08:41:06 AM »
Ben, correct.


Tommy, that picture you used, btw, that is the Ann Arbor Golf and Outing club, looking at the corner of South Main Street and Stadium Blvd. You can see how they try to butt cars right up against the fairways but also look like some cars parked right on the fairways. There are people all over the place including on fairways and greens. 


Never saw it like that at the U course...ever. Folks respected the greens and the fairways, generally speaking, because they could as there was nearly triple the room and not so crowded. It was the rough that got damaged and took a couple weeks to come back.


At least one similar photo was used in years past to demonstrate the lack of care for the course. People generally assume the worst when folks talk about using golf course for purposes other than golf. In truth, more courses should be used for other things if it makes sense. I was and am far more concerned about tree removal and expanding the greens. Parked cars is small beer. I have never seen any real damage to the course from cars. Shit, golfers taking divots causes more damage  :D .


Ciao


Ciao


100%. Those are good points.


A good example...or maybe not...was that little 9 hole gem in San Francisco, Gleneagles. If I understand correctly, when a new owner was having troubles keeping it afloat, he made a disc course on the grounds. I'm fine with that as long as play for both is not mixed. That would seem a bit strange or difficult to manage.


But if it helped keep the place open because no one was playing anyway. Why not?

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2022, 01:00:28 PM »
Fair enough, but I’m glad that neither course is my home club.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Alex Miller

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2022, 01:36:27 AM »
I played the U of M golf course for the first time this year and thought it was fantastic. If they park on it it certainly didn't show any signs in mid July. And my oh my those greens have not been desecrated, there just happens to be a rather jarring water feature on the 18th  ::)




Kyle Harris

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2022, 08:52:40 AM »
Leave it to Michigan to let their fans desecrate a MacKenzie masterpiece!




O-H…..I-O!!!!!!!


How’s the Scarlet doing? At least Ann Arbor has the sense to keep their alumnae’s desecration to non-golf things.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2022, 10:03:52 AM »
I played the U of M golf course for the first time this year and thought it was fantastic. If they park on it it certainly didn't show any signs in mid July. And my oh my those greens have not been desecrated, there just happens to be a rather jarring water feature on the 18th  ::)


The course should have healed by July. Usually it doesn't take long for it to get back into shape. The water on 18 is a surprise for folks.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Kalen Braley

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Re: I’m glad Alister Mac didn’t live to see this!
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2022, 12:27:15 PM »
I played the U of M golf course for the first time this year and thought it was fantastic. If they park on it it certainly didn't show any signs in mid July. And my oh my those greens have not been desecrated, there just happens to be a rather jarring water feature on the 18th  ::)


The course should have healed by July. Usually it doesn't take long for it to get back into shape. The water on 18 is a surprise for folks.


Given that they only presumably park on the course in the fall for the football games, I would hope it would be fine by the following spring, much less summer. 

However, given peak playing conditions in the northern states are often in September and early October, seems an inconvenient time to be trampling down golf courses in such manner.

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