OCM in Georgia?

[Kyle Casella]

On the Fried Egg podcast there was a mention of a new OCM project in Georgia. It was also mentioned in passing on the article recently on their Minnesota project, Tepetonka. Any insights on the board? Perhaps a second course at Ohoopee, which has plenty of space?

[Jonathan Webb]

I've heard it's between Columbus and Macon, GA on sandy soil.


Heritage Links is helping with the golf construction.

[Rees Milikin]

I've heard it's between Columbus and Macon, GA on sandy soil.


Heritage Links is helping with the golf construction.

This is correct and closer to Columbus. Just south of Junction City, GA in Mauk, GA lots of sand pits around. 36 holes...Fall Line Club

[PCCraig]

I don't have the article in front of me but I believe the Minnesota project is largely on hold due to some family squabbling as it relates to the sale price of the site. From what I've heard it didn't seem like the odds were it would get off the ground any time soon which is a shame as it looked like an interesting project.

[Edward Glidewell]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

[A.G._Crockett]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pound.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

[Edward Glidewell]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pond.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem like a great place to build a destination private club. It also gets cold enough that it wouldn't really be a winter destination -- not that the courses would be closed, but I think most people who are going to get on a plane and fly somewhere to play in winter prefer to go somewhere with temps at least in the high 60s or 70s. It could easily be in the 40s or 50s in that part of Georgia. The only real upside is that it's relatively close to Atlanta as a flight hub.

A resort seems like a tough proposition too. That's pretty close to Callaway Gardens (which already has 36 holes), and for people flying in to Atlanta (which would presumably be the vast majority of customers), Reynolds Plantation is closer. While the Reynolds courses may not be best of the best from an architecture standpoint, it's a well-established resort with several courses and numerous other non-golf options.

[Tom_Doak]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pond.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

A.G.:  From the little I've heard about it, the point of the new project is to copycat the success of Ohoopee.  Is there something different about this location than Ohoopee that will make it less likely to succeed?


Also, is Ohoopee open in the summer months you reference?  I don't know how they operate.

[Edward Glidewell]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pond.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

A.G.:  From the little I've heard about it, the point of the new project is to copycat the success of Ohoopee.  Is there something different about this location than Ohoopee that will make it less likely to succeed?


Also, is Ohoopee open in the summer months you reference?  I don't know how they operate.

Seems optimistic to dive right in with 36 holes, if that's the plan.


I don't think there's anything fundamentally different between this area and the Ohoopee location from a climate standpoint. However, Ohoopee is only about 1.5 hours from Savannah/Hilton Head, which is a much better fit for this kind of development than Columbus.


The only real upside I see is that it's closer to the Atlanta airport, although probably only about 45 minutes closer than Ohoopee (dependent on the actual location).

[A.G._Crockett]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pond.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

A.G.:  From the little I've heard about it, the point of the new project is to copycat the success of Ohoopee.  Is there something different about this location than Ohoopee that will make it less likely to succeed?


Also, is Ohoopee open in the summer months you reference?  I don't know how they operate.

Tom,


I know only the little I’ve read about Ohoopee, and I don’t know what they do in the summer.  As Edward says, in terms of climate and soil, there probably isn’t much difference between the two sites.  I think Edward is spot on about the relative desirability of a location near Savannah vs one near Columbus. 


But I suppose none of that matters if the money and purpose behind the new development is similar to OCM.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

I’ll be curious to hear more about this as well.  The area between Macon and Columbus might be a sand belt, but it is also relatively poor and sparsely populated.  If this is supposed to be a national destination, they’ll have to factor in that for 4 months of the year it’s as hot as hell on a bad day.  I’d also point out that in south GA, the fall line is commonly referred to as “the gnat line” because of sand gnats.  If that doesn’t sound like a big deal, then you’ve never experienced what is without a doubt the baddest creature on Earth pound for pond.


I know all of that sounds overly pessimistic, but after 40 years in GA, I know that area reasonably well.

A.G.:  From the little I've heard about it, the point of the new project is to copycat the success of Ohoopee.  Is there something different about this location than Ohoopee that will make it less likely to succeed?


Also, is Ohoopee open in the summer months you reference?  I don't know how they operate.

They are closed in the summer. Ball park mid-May to mid-September.

[Tom Dunne]

I've jeep-toured this land and it is impressive. Grand scale, very sandy, lots of cool native vegetation. I like OCM's chances to build something with plenty of Sandbelt inspiration here.


I don't know what they are planning for seasonality, but Ohoopee closes for the summer.

[Rees Milikin]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

Private national destination. The land in that area is close perfect for golf, but as AG Crockett said, the gnats are the thing to look out for, but if Ohoopee isn't having issues, then I don't see why Fall Line will, especially if they close for the hot summer months.

[Edward Glidewell]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

Private national destination. The land in that area is close perfect for golf, but as AG Crockett said, the gnats are the thing to look out for, but if Ohoopee isn't having issues, then I don't see why Fall Line will, especially if they close for the hot summer months.

As I said in other comments, I think the location is more of an issue than the climate (I live in Atlanta). It's a lot easier to hop over to Ohoopee while on vacation in Savannah/Hilton Head than to head to this spot -- Columbus isn't exactly a destination (nor is Macon).


Of course it's only 2 hours from the Atlanta airport, so it's relatively easy to get to, but... I don't know. I guess if the courses are good enough and they have accommodations on site people will come in and just stay there for a couple of days?

[John_Cullum]

It delights me to no end that I have no idea who OCM might be

[Jeff Schley]

It delights me to no end that I have no idea who OCM might be

Australia firm with Geoff Ogilvy, Mike Cocking, and Ashley Mead.

[Rees Milikin]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

Private national destination. The land in that area is close perfect for golf, but as AG Crockett said, the gnats are the thing to look out for, but if Ohoopee isn't having issues, then I don't see why Fall Line will, especially if they close for the hot summer months.

As I said in other comments, I think the location is more of an issue than the climate (I live in Atlanta). It's a lot easier to hop over to Ohoopee while on vacation in Savannah/Hilton Head than to head to this spot -- Columbus isn't exactly a destination (nor is Macon).


Of course it's only 2 hours from the Atlanta airport, so it's relatively easy to get to, but... I don't know. I guess if the courses are good enough and they have accommodations on site people will come in and just stay there for a couple of days?

I'm sure there is a contingent of people breaking off to go on vacation to Savannah and Hilton Head from Ohoopee, but out of the guys I've known to play Ohoopee, not a single one tacked on a vacation to those areas before or after Ohoopee, it was 100% golf trip driven. Which is what I suspect the Fall Line Club will be targeting, especially with 2 courses being built.

[A.G._Crockett]

Is this public, private, resort?


Hard to imagine building a new 36 hole private club outside of Columbus, but maybe if it's supposed to be a national destination?

Private national destination. The land in that area is close perfect for golf, but as AG Crockett said, the gnats are the thing to look out for, but if Ohoopee isn't having issues, then I don't see why Fall Line will, especially if they close for the hot summer months.

As I said in other comments, I think the location is more of an issue than the climate (I live in Atlanta). It's a lot easier to hop over to Ohoopee while on vacation in Savannah/Hilton Head than to head to this spot -- Columbus isn't exactly a destination (nor is Macon).


Of course it's only 2 hours from the Atlanta airport, so it's relatively easy to get to, but... I don't know. I guess if the courses are good enough and they have accommodations on site people will come in and just stay there for a couple of days?

I'm sure there is a contingent of people breaking off to go on vacation to Savannah and Hilton Head from Ohoopee, but out of the guys I've known to play Ohoopee, not a single one tacked on a vacation to those areas before or after Ohoopee, it was 100% golf trip driven. Which is what I suspect the Fall Line Club will be targeting, especially with 2 courses being built.

I would suspect that some guys go to Ohoopee while wives go to Savannah for a couple of days.  Savannah is a really cool and very beautiful old coastal city, much like Charleston.  Macon is none of that, and Columbus is even less so.

[Ben Sims]

Since I can’t find a location for the project, I drew a mental rectangle bounded by Columbus on the west, Warner Robins on the east, Thomaston to the north, and Americus to the south. Drop a pin dead center. That geographic point is less than two hours from Hartsfield and 2.5 hrs from Alpharetta. That’s closer than Ohoopee unless you roll into Savannah.By comparison, Ballyneal is 2:45 from DEN and three hours from the south Denver suburbs.

All that to say, I don’t see what the big deal is. It’ll be playable but hot in summer if they choose. And it’ll be medium cold in winter. In fact, Americus GA avg temps kind of mirror a place called Augusta. I think they play golf there.

[Kyle Casella]

Thanks all. I am not so pessimistic about the location. I have been to Ohoopee several times and my view is that the success of Ohoopee has nothing to do with the proximity to a desirable vacation destination and a lot to do with the quality of the architecture and the fun factor. Less than two hours from one of the largest airports in the world seems to be a good quality. Hutchinson, KS; Holyoke, CO; Mullen, NE...none of these are exactly easy to get to from most of America, let alone within a four hour door to door for ~100mm+ people. I hope OCM knocks it out of the park!

[Rees Milikin]

Airport proximity is definitely going to help with getting to there, only 2 hours from the Atlanta airport, 45 minutes from the Columbus airport and 10 minutes from the Butler Municipal airport.


Looking forward to seeing this project unfold and glad to see some world class golf from OCM coming to Georgia.

[Ben Hollerbach]

I've heard it's between Columbus and Macon, GA on sandy soil.

Heritage Links is helping with the golf construction.

This is correct and closer to Columbus. Just south of Junction City, GA in Mauk, GA lots of sand pits around. 36 holes...Fall Line Club

Is it being build on the recently sold "Fall Line Farm" in Mauk?

The property is way to small for 36 holes, but the name parallel was too good not to ask.

[Rees Milikin]

I've heard it's between Columbus and Macon, GA on sandy soil.

Heritage Links is helping with the golf construction.

This is correct and closer to Columbus. Just south of Junction City, GA in Mauk, GA lots of sand pits around. 36 holes...Fall Line Club

Is it being build on the recently sold "Fall Line Farm" in Mauk?

The property is way to small for 36 holes, but the name parallel was too good not to ask.

Pretty much in the middle of the triangle from Junction City to Butler to Mauk.

[Jeff Schley]

Who is developing this project?  Are they selling memberships to finance it now?  Homesites planned?

[Edward Glidewell]

Who is developing this project?  Are they selling memberships to finance it now?  Homesites planned?

I'd assume no homesites (or at least very few), as that's not exactly a desirable place for people to move to from elsewhere and it seems like it will be out of the price range for most people in the Columbus area.


I imagine it would also diminish the national destination club aspect to have the fairways lined with homes.


Regardless, I agree with others that if the courses are good enough it will work.