Maidstone Counts Coup

[Pete_Pittock]

6,700 yard Maidstone hosted the Hamptons Intercollegiate earlier this month. The Virginia Cavaliers' team score was four over par for the three rounds in taking the victory. They won by thirty-five strokes. I'm blown away.
I'm guessing fast, sloping greens with plenty of wind.


https://virginiasports.com/news/2022/10/04/uva-rolls-to-record-setting-win-at-hamptons-intercollegiate/

[Ian Mackenzie]

6,700 yard Maidstone hosted the Hamptons Intercollegiate earlier this month. The Virginia Cavaliers' team score was four over par for the three rounds in taking the victory. They won by thirty-five strokes. I'm blown away.
I'm guessing fast, sloping greens with plenty of wind.


https://virginiasports.com/news/2022/10/04/uva-rolls-to-record-setting-win-at-hamptons-intercollegiate/

Well, according to the article:  "Playing in windy conditions that created a gale warning in the region due to the remnants of Hurricane Ian off of the coast near Long Island, James managed four birdies and one bogey during his final round of play to shoot 3-under 69. He has shot under-par in eight of his nine collegiate rounds.

[Colin Sheehan]

It was the third time (2019, 2021 and this year) that Maidstone and Loyola University have hosted this terrific event. And each of those three times the weather was MIGHTY. This year it was the remnants of Hurricane Ian. High winds. Freezing rain. (The extra tall flagstick on the blind par-three eighth was bending 90-degrees while the players were putting to it!) And the 10th fairway is played as Out of Bounds on hole 9, which makes one of the most epic holes in North America that much more challenging. Milford, Connecticut's Ben James is the real deal. One of the most talented amateur golfers in America and he's just two months into his UVA career.


https://results.golfstat.com/public/leaderboards/gsnav.cfm?pg=team&tid=25507


The Yale lads acquitted themselves this year with quality head-to-head wins against some Power Five schools. And it's always fun to thump Princeton by 40 and Penn by 59! You shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets freely when you do that to someone. (wink)

I have always loved Maidstone and my admiration has only grown for that course after each event.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Maidstone is one of those courses that grows on you. The first time I played, I thought there were some great holes but a few pedestrian ones. After a few plays, you uncover the course's pace and the holes' subtleties. It is a great spot. As for Virginia, they have a first-class practice facility. Every time I get there, I wish I were on the team.

[Joe Bausch]

Maidstone hole-by-hole photo tour from about 5 years ago for those of you scoring at home. . . .

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Maidstone/index.html

[SL_Solow]

I am a bit confused in trying to understand the message of this post.  It appears to suggest that Maidstone is a good/great course because college players played poorly there.  In other words "hard is good".  If that is the point, I suggest that it is simplistic at best and hearkens back to the bad old days when length and difficulty were exalted over strategy and fun.  As it turns out, I have played Maidstone.  It is a wonderful golf course which presents numerous interesting and fun challenges when played in its normal conditions when there is a fair amount of wind.  Most any course can produce high scores in brutal conditions.  Moreover, almost anyone can build a brutally difficult course regardless of the conditions.  But judging a course by the scores it yields is, by my way of thinking, dangerous in evaluating architecture.

[Kalen Braley]

I think the one item perhaps architecture related was that the course is "only" 6700 yards, which is very short for D1 college players, yet produced high scores

But I was more curious about the overall result.  Is UVA that good, or the rest of the teams just that bad? 

Team Results
1. Virginia       285-292-291-868
2. Yale           289-301-313-903
3. Kentucky       303-301-300-904
4. Ohio State     309-301-304-914
5. Oregon State   313-295-308-916
6. Utah           310-294-314-918
7. Princeton      313-311-319-943
8. Georgetown     315-316-324-955
9. Loyola (Md.)   321-327-308-956
10. Penn           310-314-338-962

[Pete_Pittock]

Sol,
There was no agenda intended on architecture. Sometimes golf courses, and fields of competitors get chastened by conditions, like part of an Open at Muirfield. Gale warnings were posted.The five UVa golfers finished in the top seven positions. Their top play, Ben James, a frteshman posted a 9 stroke victory. He also won at Streamsong at -20. Top ranked AJGA player last year. A name to continue to watch.
I have not played Maidstone, nor am I angling for the privilege.


PP

[ward peyronnin]

For me the message here is something along the lines of when a links course is properly defended by perhaps the principal element, the wind, it has been designed around even superior players find it a test. Too many times when the wind is down and scores are low good players do not appreciate that the perceived "goat ranch" links with few other hazards in play is indeed a worthy test.

Furthermore I would be willing to bet that few or none of the field really knew the best approach to playing in these conditions and continued the hopeless effort of trying to overpower a course. All i had to see were the best amateurs in the world, incl. Spieth, hit the same ballflight turning home at the 2011 Walker Cup at R Aberdeen and start losing holes to the cagier UK guys to see this mentality on display.

So yes it is an architectural observation and not limited to difficulty but more about the proper method of play.

[Niall C]

Wardo,


As you know an awful lot of the top amateur events over here are played on links courses so those guys are used to hitting a low ball flight. However I wonder whether in the return fixture on an inland course in the US whether they change their ball flight to hit it higher ?


Niall

[David_Tepper]

Niall -

Jack Nicklaus & Tom Watson won 8 Open Championships between them, as well has having several runner-up finishes. Both were high-ball hitters. My understanding is neither deliberately tried to change their ball flight when playing in the Open. They just hit the ball very solidly.

I do remember once reading Richie Ramsey say he had to learn to hit the ball higher to compete well when playing in the U.S.

DT

[Max Prokopy]

I think the one item perhaps architecture related was that the course is "only" 6700 yards, which is very short for D1 college players, yet produced high scores

But I was more curious about the overall result.  Is UVA that good, or the rest of the teams just that bad? 

Team Results
1. Virginia       285-292-291-868
2. Yale           289-301-313-903
3. Kentucky       303-301-300-904
4. Ohio State     309-301-304-914
5. Oregon State   313-295-308-916
6. Utah           310-294-314-918
7. Princeton      313-311-319-943
8. Georgetown     315-316-324-955
9. Loyola (Md.)   321-327-308-956
10. Penn           310-314-338-962

Kentucky and Ohio State have had some solid teams in the recent years (making the NCAA tournament, though perhaps not the national finals). 

[Mike Rost]

https://metpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/metpga22/event/metpga2259/contest/11/leaderboard.htm

The NY Met Area Pga pro-pro best ball was held over those same 2 days nearby at Noyac GC and Gardiner's Bay CC.  I think the winning score is usually 15-20 strokes lower (though i think typically it's been played at The Bridge rather than Noyac).


Looks like mother nature got the better of the pros as well.

[jeffwarne]

https://metpga.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/metpga22/event/metpga2259/contest/11/leaderboard.htm

The NY Met Area Pga pro-pro best ball was held over those same 2 days nearby at Noyac GC and Gardiner's Bay CC.  I think the winning score is usually 15-20 strokes lower (though i think typically it's been played at The Bridge rather than Noyac).


Looks like mother nature got the better of the pros as well.

20 strokes lower than 136?
LOL.
We're club pros...


The Bridge hosted the MET PGA Championship this year, which was played the week before so we took a year off from hosting with GB.
Pretty high winds, then heavy rain the final day of that as well.


There was a scheduling conflict with the Long Island Senior which was held the same two days as the Pro-Pro, diluting the Pro-Pro, particularly in the Senior division.
The LI Senior Open was held at Inwood, where the wind absolutely howled, and the second day was washed out, shortening to a one day event.
Disappointing as Inwood was really good the first day, holding up well in steady rain all day, heavier later in the day, then really heavy all night.