Yale GC

[Philip Gordillo]

I was in CT last weekend and finally got to play Yale for the first time.  Perhaps it’s normal but I can’t stop thinking about it!   My MacRaynor playing experience is fairly decent but the scale that everyone talks about blew me away.  So many great holes but my personal favorite was Shinnecock (#10).  However, the often talked about finishing hole left me highly puzzled.  I really don’t know what to think it and a few old threads seem to have opinions on all sides.  Has anyone seen Gil Hanse plans?  Not suggesting that #18 be changed but rather wondering if the architect is going to be being given some artistic freedom or not.  Side note - the GM Peter Palacios seemed to be running the entire operation by himself on Sunday (full tee sheet) which was impressive by itself but his professionalism and demeanor was extraordinary.

[Richard Hetzel]

I played it back in June, and fell in love with it. What a great course. Peter is awesome. He could not believe that I drove all the way from Cincinnati to play Yale!

[Tim Martin]

Phil-I think 10 is tougher than 4 and an incredible hole. For the one off player 18 is very polarizing and many line up as loving it if they make 4,5 or 6 and hate if they make 7 or more and wreck their scorecard. It grows on you as a one of a kind marvel after subsequent plays. Peter Palacios has worked incredibly hard since taking the position and is there every day to run the tee sheet and greet players. He has been an asset to the University as well as the golf course. Glad to hear how much you enjoyed it.

[Mike Hendren]

I’m fond of Yale’s finisher - get from A to B somehow.  True cross-country golf.

[Richard Hetzel]

I’m fond of Yale’s finisher - get from A to B somehow.  True cross-country golf.

I think the hole would be better the second time around. I cannot think of a single hole that I did not enjoy.

[Bret Lawrence]

Philip,


I am glad you enjoyed your round at Yale.  I think 18 is a great hole, but it can take on many personalities with the maintenance of the hole.  I also played Yale on Sunday and it’s a little puzzling why they would leave knee-high rough in between the two split fairways.  When the grass is short and kicks balls to the lower fairway the hole is more playable.  With knee-high rough between the fairways the hole takes on a more penal personality.  Considering the second shot is completely blind, it’s odd that they would place a lost ball hazard directly in the middle of a blind corridor.  Perhaps this is the setup for the college kids?  I enjoy the hole more when you can find your ball in between the split fairways.


I have not seen the plans, but I am hopeful the restoration will yield a better golfing experience..


Bret

[Tim Gavrich]

Yale's 18th is one of the most brilliant golf holes I've ever played because it is a one-hole distillation/recap of the preceding 17-hole journey. I'm not aware of any other golf course whose final hole serves a similar function in such an obvious way.

[Dan_Callahan]

The first few times I played Yale, I hated the 18th. I would go so far as to say it was my least favorite finishing hole in golf. On a course that, at the time, I would have listed as my favorite. And yet over time, the 18th grew on me. It obviously still needs some work to figure out just what kind of hole it wants to be. But in terms of pure originality and fun, I love it. It's hard to believe a hole like 18 ... or 10 ... or even 3 ... would be built today. The only hole on the course I don't love is 16. It's just sort of straight and boring and forgettable.

[Colin Sheehan]

Yes, I'm biased but I think the 18th hole at Yale is one of the great finishing holes in all of golf. It completes the 18-hole journey on some terrific terrain. If you play the hole 100 times, you won't play it the same way twice. What other hole can you say that about?!?


Yes, the rough could be trimmed back, but you should be reminded of the language we included for the "Notice to Competitors" sheet in the Mac Cup last month:


Notice to Competitors: In golf the cardinal rules are arbitrary and not founded on eternal justice. Equity has nothing to do with the game itself, nor can its essence be governed by a green committee. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry. Remember the other player has got to meet exactly the same inequalities. -Charles Blair Macdonald (1928)

[Philip Gordillo]

Philip,


I am glad you enjoyed your round at Yale.  I think 18 is a great hole, but it can take on many personalities with the maintenance of the hole.  I also played Yale on Sunday and it’s a little puzzling why they would leave knee-high rough in between the two split fairways.  When the grass is short and kicks balls to the lower fairway the hole is more playable.  With knee-high rough between the fairways the hole takes on a more penal personality.  Considering the second shot is completely blind, it’s odd that they would place a lost ball hazard directly in the middle of a blind corridor.  Perhaps this is the setup for the college kids?  I enjoy the hole more when you can find your ball in between the split fairways.


I have not seen the plans, but I am hopeful the restoration will yield a better golfing experience..


Bret

Bret,


I think you are spot on regarding Sunday’s presentation.   I thought I hit a great drive but ended up in the rough (left of bunker on the right) on a bad uphill lie.  Perhaps my ball should have rolled back with more appropriate mowing.  I should have hit a 3-wood in hindsight but I will next time.  Regardless, I can definitely see how this hole grows on you over time.  Can’t wait for the rematch!

[Bret Lawrence]

Yes, I'm biased but I think the 18th hole at Yale is one of the great finishing holes in all of golf. It completes the 18-hole journey on some terrific terrain. If you play the hole 100 times, you won't play it the same way twice. What other hole can you say that about?!?


Yes, the rough could be trimmed back, but you should be reminded of the language we included for the "Notice to Competitors" sheet in the Mac Cup last month:


Notice to Competitors: In golf the cardinal rules are arbitrary and not founded on eternal justice. Equity has nothing to do with the game itself, nor can its essence be governed by a green committee. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry. Remember the other player has got to meet exactly the same inequalities. -Charles Blair Macdonald (1928)

Colin,


Let’s remember this is the same Macdonald that cried about the setup at the first unofficial amateur and how ditches at Sunningdale didn’t make a good hazard.  I am just pointing out that the hole has many personalities strictly based on how it is maintained.  The paying public golfer generally ends up in this hazard on 18 and it leaves them with a bad taste in their mouth. It may also leave them with nettles on their pants or ticks on their legs. Is it fair?  Absolutely! Does it come into play for me on the second shot? Only if I don’t execute, and I gladly accept my medicine.  Just like a silly pin placement, it’s fair, but it’s going to upset a lot of the general public and it could easily be remedied by harvesting the hay on the hillside. I will keep that quote in mind when I play “Raynor’s Revenge” this weekend.


Bret

[Kalen Braley]

Yes, I'm biased but I think the 18th hole at Yale is one of the great finishing holes in all of golf. It completes the 18-hole journey on some terrific terrain. If you play the hole 100 times, you won't play it the same way twice. What other hole can you say that about?!?

Yes, the rough could be trimmed back, but you should be reminded of the language we included for the "Notice to Competitors" sheet in the Mac Cup last month:

Notice to Competitors: In golf the cardinal rules are arbitrary and not founded on eternal justice. Equity has nothing to do with the game itself, nor can its essence be governed by a green committee. Take your medicine where you find it and don’t cry. Remember the other player has got to meet exactly the same inequalities. -Charles Blair Macdonald (1928)

Colin,

The irony of that statement is in the 90+ years since then, the rules have been packed full of so many exceptions that its nearly impossible to keep track of them all. Can you imagine guys from yesteryear learning that you can repair spike marks on the green or get a free drop if your ball is tool close to the loo. They'd be laughing their asses off.

[Ira Fishman]

Yale's 18th is one of the most brilliant golf holes I've ever played because it is a one-hole distillation/recap of the preceding 17-hole journey. I'm not aware of any other golf course whose final hole serves a similar function in such an obvious way.

So well stated.


My understanding is that the mandate to Gil Hanse is to put the course back as close as possible to where it was when it opened. I am not sure what 18 looked like a 100 years, but I hope it was pretty close to the current version of the hole at least regarding the route from tee to green.


Ira


PS Peter Palacios clearly cares deeply about the course and the folks who come to play it.

[Tim Martin]

Philip,


I am glad you enjoyed your round at Yale.  I think 18 is a great hole, but it can take on many personalities with the maintenance of the hole.  I also played Yale on Sunday and it’s a little puzzling why they would leave knee-high rough in between the two split fairways.  When the grass is short and kicks balls to the lower fairway the hole is more playable.  With knee-high rough between the fairways the hole takes on a more penal personality.  Considering the second shot is completely blind, it’s odd that they would place a lost ball hazard directly in the middle of a blind corridor.  Perhaps this is the setup for the college kids?  I enjoy the hole more when you can find your ball in between the split fairways.


I have not seen the plans, but I am hopeful the restoration will yield a better golfing experience..


Bret

Bret is too modest to tell you that he played Sunday from the 621 yard back tee and despite having his ball get stuck on the bank in question on his 2nd shot careered the 3rd to 10 feet behind a back pin and nearly made 4.

[Bret Lawrence]

Tim,


I was one of the lucky ones, because I found my ball.  We both know how lucky that shot was, but it did teach me that being behind a back pin on 18 is a really great place to be.  It only took me about 60 rounds to figure that out.


I agree with what everyone says above regarding Peter and Jeff and the staff in place at Yale.  I think they have done a terrific job since the pandemic shutdown.  I understand the hazard in question is a difficult hazard to maintain and I’m not demanding that the grass be cut, but I do think that cutting the grass in that center line hazard produces more strategy than when the grass is long.  I think the fact that Yale can change several of its holes from strategic to penal is an asset, when they want to test the best players and there are spotters and spectators around to help locate lost golf balls.  I just feel like after the tournaments are over and the public is enjoying the course, it might be a good idea to cut back the grass.  In the hierarchy of hazards where does a blind centerline lost ball hazard fall?  I would think it would be close to trees and ditches in Macdonald’s mind, but that’s just my personal opinion.


Bret

[Bret Lawrence]

Ira,


Here is a good look at 18 from the 1934 aerial.  Very similar to today, but todays version is missing the fairway bunker, which would likely help players aim their second shots.  As of now, you need to pick a cloud in the sky.  The green side bunkers aren’t quite as big today as they used to be.

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