18th at Pebble

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There is something missing on the 18th at Pebble. It would be the two trees in the driving area. One had already died and now the 2nd was taken out. Many on here feel it is a better hole without them. The company noted that two Cypress trees would replace the pines and be in this spring. They will be 30 to 40 yards further down the fairway to allow for increased distances off the tee.

[A_Clay_Man]

JB- So by moving them 30-40 they will definitely NOT be in play, especially if they are far enough right?

How's the replacement tall tree on #2 up left by the baranca, is it surviving?

Pebble sure has gone on a bunker making tree transplanting binge. Is any of it enhancing?

[Brian_Gracely]

Without the two fairways trees, the tee-shot on 18 didn't offer alot of challenge.  Unless you think you can get home in two, you just take aim at the second set of fairway bunkers and go as deep as you want.  It's probably 300yds to those new bunkers (about a year old..the caddy told me).  

Having only played their once, and comparing the course to the StrokeSaver book, the two changes I noticed were a new set of bunkers along the left side of #2 fairway.  They seem to mirror the ones on the right, and are at about 220-290 from the back tee.  Then there is those new bunkers along the right side of 18 fairway.

The trees to the left of the barranca on #2 don't really come into play as they aren't very tall yet.  Eventually they will come into play if you're approaching the green from the left side of the fairway, but there will still be ample room to work the ball in from various angles.

[A_Clay_Man]

Brian- There used to be a skinny, old, mostly dead skeleton of a tree sitting just prior to the cross bunker even with the left fairway edge. It was never really tall and was great line for my high fade. I also miss the old oaks to the left of the forward tees on 6 but not for the sixth holes looks but for the use circular nature they showed when teeing off on 14.

I have not seen the new bunkers on 18 and don't really want to. They seemed ill conceived and I wonder how enhancing they are. Same on 2. The left rough is where I had quite a few recoveries from onto the green in two and are some of my fondest shot memories playing Pebble.

[texsport]

Tiger B.
        I'd rather see 3-5 fairway trees put back where they were. That would make the hole much more challenging for all players. Moving them 30-40 yards further from the tee takes them out of play even for Hank K. and John D. and really serving no function except ornamental.
        Long tee shot accuracy should be demanded on any par 5 but particularly when it's the 18th hole.
 

Geaux Tigers!

Texsport

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It is a great day to be an LSU Tiger!!!!! I agree with you. Leave the trees where they were.

[texsport]

It is a great day to be an LSU Tiger!!!!! I agree with you. Leave the trees where they were.

Not to change the thread subject-but- Next Year was supposed to be the Tiger's year. With only 17-18 seniors and only 1 senior offensive starter it may continue to be good to be a Tiger!

[ChipOat]

Oh boy, my favorite pet peeve - Stupid Trees!!

And back we go to the most visible example of Stupid Trees - #18 at Pebble.

Not only did they exist in the first place, but the powers-that-be keep replacing them when they die.

First the greenside Stupid Tree and now this.

All that hole needs is a new green complex and no Stupid Trees.  Then it might be as good a par 5 as #14 and maybe a touch better than #6.

As it is, it's the 3rd best par 5 on the course, IMO.

But we've done that thread before.

[stovepipe]

O.Kay, for me the 18th at Peble,  Great hole!

But Im thinking its a bit harsh to stick 2 trees in the fairway, its a hard enough hole anyway without the trees.

If you realy need to tough it up, which i dont think is nessasery,(have i spelt it right, dont look right to me?) But how about sticking 2 bunkers down the extreme right, one at 270 and the other at 300. so if you take it on, and hit a great shot, you dont get punished,

Good Golf shots should not! get punished, period. The amount of Great Golf shots Ive hit, only to get where the ball is, and have no shot at all is, i think unfair     Due to Micky Mouse Golf Course design   It just aint Cricket Old Man

[stovepipe]

The state of my game at present, I dont think I would have made the 18th, and i guess Ill never have the good fortune to test my awsome skill, (skoff skoff) against the Might of this Californian Beastie.

So in my opinion, do what the Hell you like with it, makes good reading thou

[A_Clay_Man]

For the benefit of Stovepipe I will reiterate how infrequent anyone is stymied by those two trees in the fairway. And how difficult it is to be stymied by them. IF, one does get stymied they have hit a shot, I would never confuse with perfect. Sure, the striking of the ball may have been clean and perhaps the purest a golfer has ever struck a ball, BUT, that doesn't make it a great shot.

And, the tree by the green is also rarely in play if the golfer has managed the hole properly. These trees are in my Opinion, NOT stupid. The hole is not lined with trees which would be stupid. Rather it uses the trees  to narrow the vast openness that is there. It is wide.

I believe if whomever (or committee ) is responsible for all these changes (adding bunkers) is clearly not keeping with the nature of the course. An innovative change, on 18, would be something in the nature of a centerline bunker that would need to be carried by anyone wishing to waylay the ball. The cross carry on Pebble is everywhere, why not on 18?

[ChipOat]

Adam:

The tree by the green does, in fact, come very much into play from the right side of the fairway and...........oh, never mind.

[A_Clay_Man]

Chipster- In the immortal words of that famous Doctor "don't hit it there!"

But seriously, Your justifications for your opinion are FINE. They are yours from your experiences of playing the hole. BUT, I'd ask you to look at it from another perspective and the truth being told, I always felt that if I went right on my second shot, I deserved the "issue" of the tree. The play is to stay close to the bunker on the left and any failure to do so results in NO FREE RIDEs. The really prudent play would be to lay-up short of the left bunker on the extreme left side. Leaving 145-160 yards in for the third. Not unreasonable is it? But, what apparently draws you further down the rightside? The golfer is asked all day long at Pebble to hit many types of shots. With the openness of the left side on 18, calling the tree stupid will always be as unwarrented as playing into it's clutches.

[stovepipe]

O.Kay A-clay-man, I didnt realize the fairway was as wide as that, however heres another option which thay use over here to good effect, grow the rough in, seems perfectly logical, and the cost is free

[Scott Seward]

Catalog of changes at Pebble in the last 6 months:

#2 - As mentioned, new bunkers on left in scratch golfer's driving zone. Also, new trees on the RIGHT (yes, the right) of the fiarway, just short of the barranca. These trees, which look very unhealthy right now, completely change the complexion of this hole. Also, the green has been re-grassed (and slightly re-contoured) with a new strain of Bent which probably will succomb to Poa.

#9 - New back tee - measures about 490 yards.

#14 - 3 new bunkers on left of fairway and also 1 on the right, beyond the current bunker. These bunkers are clearly designed for the scratch, Professional player though the resort golfers are having a lot of trouble with them. Guess they thought ths hole was too easy.

#16 - New tee box, didn't change the yardage

#18 - New bunker on right of fairway. Trees in fairway have come down to be replaced after the AT&T. Without the trees, the new bunker is essential. With the trees, I don't know.

Most changes designed to impact the tour player though that being said, bad golfers inevitably will find trouble wherever it exists.

[Rick Shefchik]

Pebble Beach or not, I have never understood the concept of trees in the middle of the fairway. I think an ocean left and OB/bunkers right make the hole interesting enough as it is. If the powers that be are so concerned about good players eating up the 18th, bring the rough/bunkers/O.B. in from the right. As far as I'm concerned, there's little difference between having to negotiate around, over or under a tree from a bunker, and having to deal with those trees on 18 at PB when you've already got the biggest water hazard in the world to deal with off the tee.

[ChipOat]

Adam:

Don't hit the ball in the FAIRWAY??  It's OK to hit a ball in the FAIRWAY and be blocked??

I agree that the OPTIMAL place from which to hit the 2nd and 3rd shots on that hole is as far left (i.e. closest to disaster) as possible.  That is classic genius strategic architecture.  It's the part of the hole that's so great.

But no way Jose on trees that block shots from ANYWHERE in a fairway.  Those that do so are Stupid Trees.  Ix-nay on obstructed shots from the fairway. if you please.

[A_Clay_Man]

Well I'm glad to see you have an opened mind to it.

ANd

Yes, if you go too far down the fairway the tree is an issue. It is there. You can see it. You decided to place your ball in the clutches of it, and you call it stupid?

I guess Pete Dye is stupid for "unter der linden"? And all the other strategically placed trees that have been used effectively without destroying the multi-dimensionality of any golf hole?

I am beginning to see the light.