Worst universally loved golf hole...

[Jon Sweet]

Figure this might get some good debate going although I am sure its been done many times before.  What is the worst of all the well known golf holes that are universally loved by most?  Been MIA for a while, hope all are well!

[Kalen Braley]

Loved by who is the real question...

If that means loved by the masses outside of GCA, I'm going to go with Torrey Pines 18

[Wayne_Kozun]

How about worst universally loved bunker - the MacKenzie bunker on #10 at Augusta.

[John Kavanaugh]

Worst most loved green. 16 at Pasa.

[Joe_Tucholski]

17 at Sawgrass

[Mark Kiely]

Anyone who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Anytime who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

Mac bunker on 10 at ANGC has absolutely zero strategic value, at least for the pros.  I can't recall ever seeing a player in it during the Masters and it doesn't require them to play their shots in any particular way.  The bunker would only get action from a bad amateur player, making it a Duffers Headache.

[John Kavanaugh]

Anyone who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

The 16th at Pasa is an unsustainable calendar girl from another era. One green should never require such an unbalanced number of resources just to exist for beauties sake.

[Jon Sweet]

Anytime who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

Mac bunker on 10 at ANGC has absolutely zero strategic value, at least for the pros.  I can't recall ever seeing a player in it during the Masters and it doesn't require them to play their shots in any particular way.  The bunker would only get action from a bad amateur player, making it a Duffers Headache.

I believe this bunker was originally greenside or?  I seem to remember something about that.  Been a while since I have looked at the course in depth.

[Jon Sweet]

Anytime who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

Mac bunker on 10 at ANGC has absolutely zero strategic value, at least for the pros.  I can't recall ever seeing a player in it during the Masters and it doesn't require them to play their shots in any particular way.  The bunker would only get action from a bad amateur player, making it a Duffers Headache.

Caddied there for some time, tons of duffers, in fact the large majority were.  Never raked it once.

[Ken Moum]

Figure this might get some good debate going although I am sure its been done many times before.  What is the worst of all the well known golf holes that are universally loved by most?  Been MIA for a while, hope all are well!

Well, the good debate apparently hasn't been triggered by what's happened so far...

So, I'll put on my flame suit and nominate Foxy at RDC.  It's simply not a great par four...period.

Here's my best argument for it, on Golf.com Hindrik Gommer calls it "The best hole I've ever played: A simple, near-perfect par-4 at Royal Dornoch."

And yet, he's never hit the green in two?

He says, "If you don't hit the green you're best off missing right. The only pars I've made were up-and-downs from there. I've yet to have a birdie putt on Foxy."

Okay, I know par is an irrelevant concept, but calling it the best par four you've ever played and then hoping...hoping, that someday you might be on in regulation?

Cripes.

I've said before that RDC is just too hard for me to really enjoy, and I will probably play it every time I get into the Highlands. I have also said that Golspie is where Dornoch members go when they want to have fun.

Back to my bunker.

[Jon Sweet]

Sounds more like a situation where someone isn't playing the proper tee for how far they hit their ball. I am also of the group that doesn't think you are entitled to a two putt simply by hitting the green.

[Ken Moum]

Sounds more like a situation where someone isn't playing the proper tee for how far they hit their ball. I am also of the group that doesn't think you are entitled to a two putt simply by hitting the green.

Well, he's long enough that he's hitting a mid iron to a 445-yard hole. So there's that.

[Tom_Doak]

Anytime who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

Mac bunker on 10 at ANGC has absolutely zero strategic value, at least for the pros.  I can't recall ever seeing a player in it during the Masters and it doesn't require them to play their shots in any particular way.  The bunker would only get action from a bad amateur player, making it a Duffers Headache.

Caddied there for some time, tons of duffers, in fact the large majority were.  Never raked it once.

I was in that bunker the last time I played there, after topping a 4-wood second shot off the usual downhill lie.


Also, Tom Weiskopf drove it in there once.


But, yes, it guarded the left of MacKenzie’s original tenth green.  Perry Maxwell didn’t have the heart to remove it when he moved the green a few years later.

[Pete Lavallee]

I don’t know if it’s universally loved, but I’ll nominate the 4th hole at Spyglass Hill. Although it’s beautiful and strategic the green may just be a tad too tough hold, even from the perfect angle. Get out of position off the tee and you’ve got a double waiting to happen.

[Ronald Montesano]

It takes a lot to be universally loved and uniquely terrible. I think that it is impossible to be universally anything. That would require an entirety to have the same opinion.

A hole like Postage Stamp might fit the ask. Perhaps the short par three from the composite The Country Club at this year's US Open.

A hole like 16 at Sleepy Hollow would not.

If the hole falls apart (and becomes unplayable) under windy conditions, does that matter?

[John Kirk]

I'm going to assume we should select holes that are universally loved here.  In these cases, I like to choose a sacred cow.


I have a problem with the 2nd hole at Somerset Hills, the famous Redan.  And yes, it is based on how i played the hole.  I'd guess the hole was playing about 175-185 the day I played it.  The hole location was in the middle, maybe five yards deep of center and over the big ridge, but just by a few yards.

I felt I had only one chance to hit a good shot on the famous hole, and I pulled it off nicely.  I needed to fade a mid-iron (6 iron) short and right of the hole, and I executed well.  The ball landed on the upslope maybe 15-20 yards short and 3-4 yards right of the hole and trickled rather slowly over the ridge and just kept going down to the bottom of the green, leaving a 75 foot putt up a very steep slope.  I hammered it up the hill to about 6-8 feet short and missed the par putt.

If the green speeds were 8-9 feet I might have had a good look at birdie.  I hit a good enough tee shot to deserve that opportunity.

EDIT - Let me add this after the original post.  The problem with the hole is an excessive number of second or third shots will be played from that same area at the back of the green.

[Carl Rogers]

18th at Bandon Trails .... not loved, but a let down

[Ted Sirbaugh]

I'm going to assume we should select holes that are universally loved here.  In these cases, I like to choose a sacred cow.


I have a problem with the 2nd hole at Somerset Hills, the famous Redan.  And yes, it is based on how i played the hole.  I'd guess the hole was playing about 175-185 the day I played it.  The hole location was in the middle, maybe five yards deep of center and over the big ridge, but just by a few yards.

I felt I had only one chance to hit a good shot on the famous hole, and I pulled it off nicely.  I needed to fade a mid-iron (6 iron) short and right of the hole, and I executed well.  The ball landed on the upslope maybe 15-20 yards short and 3-4 yards right of the hole and trickled rather slowly over the ridge and just kept going down to the bottom of the green, leaving a 75 foot putt up a very steep slope.  I hammered it up the hill to about 6-8 feet short and missed the par putt.

If the green speeds were 8-9 feet I might have had a good look at birdie.  I hit a good enough tee shot to deserve that opportunity.

Here's Steve Lapper's fine praise for the famous New Jersey Redan:

https://golf.com/travel/somerset-hills-cc-best-hole-ever-played/

I mostly agree with you as I've always felt like I was supposed to love the 2nd more than I do. I still like the hole, but most put it in their top 2-3 favorites on the course whereas I have it closer to the bottom half of holes at Somerset Hills (which is among my favorite courses).


I agree that a slower green would help, though for slightly different reasons. I don't mind the slim margin of error and your shot ending up on the back of the green because it was hit one yard too far. But I don't like that it plays somewhat one-dimensionally. There's really only one ideal line off the tee, regardless of the pin position - the only difference is wanting to land the ball five yards shorter or longer depending on the pin location. And a number of what could be cool recovery shots aren't possible in its current form.

[jeffwarne]

#1 at NGLA


Too early in the round to tempt most good players, especially given that very few use the range (perhaps that has changed)
Very tough green for amateurs to hit, hold or putt, so it basically is a potentially great hole that pleases few...

[Tim Martin]

# 2 at Wannamoisett


The hole was a par 5 on opening day and subsequently changed to a par 4. Only the bombers are going to make the forced carry over a creek that fronts the green. Requiring players to layup at the crest of the hill and hitting a roughly one hundred yard third shot turns it into a pretty one dimensional hole. You are going to get it up and in for four as often as finding a $100 bill in the grass on the walk to the green.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Anytime who posts in this thread should be required to explain their reasoning.

Mac bunker on 10 at ANGC has absolutely zero strategic value, at least for the pros.  I can't recall ever seeing a player in it during the Masters and it doesn't require them to play their shots in any particular way.  The bunker would only get action from a bad amateur player, making it a Duffers Headache.

I believe this bunker was originally greenside or?  I seem to remember something about that.  Been a while since I have looked at the course in depth.

Yes it was.  But it makes no sense where the green is today.

[Joe_Tucholski]

If the hole falls apart (and becomes unplayable) under windy conditions, does that matter?

Kind of like the 17th at Sawgrass did earlier this year when the wind picked up a bit.  Maybe it's not universally loved but I'd bet it's one of the most iconic holes among golfers.  If you ask about the island green most casual golf fans will at least know what you are talking about.  I'd say it's the only hole mentioned in the thread that fits that description.


The hole is famous because a tour event is played on it each year.  I've played a number of the dye island greens and the first time was kind of nerve wracking the additional plays were not enjoyable at all.  Hit the shot until you hit the green isn't fun.

[Rob Marshall]

#1 at NGLA


Too early in the round to tempt most good players, especially given that very few use the range (perhaps that has changed)
Very tough green for amateurs to hit, hold or putt, so it basically is a potentially great hole that pleases few...

Why doesn’t anyone use the range?

[Ira Fishman]

My wife would tell you The Pit at NB. The fence messed with her mind both rounds even though she hit good pitches. She is not too keen on Yale 9 either.