I told you; LIV is for lawyers...

[Tom_Doak]

Obviously, guaranteed money is still the key--but home country seems to have some pull as well.  I wonder if non-US boys don't grow up dreaming of playing the PGA Tour the way they do here?

This has been true for as long as I've understood the pro tour.  The list of overseas players who eschewed the PGA Tour or battled them over rules of how many events one had to play includes Peter Thomson, Gary Player, Seve Ballesteros, and Greg Norman, but many of the not-so-famous names have resented the idea that the PGA Tour was the be-all, end-all of golf.


And, really, do we think it is?  The Tour is trying hard to conflate the four majors with the Tour, and they may get support in their fight from the majors, but that's not the same thing.  As for other events, how many of us care [or even remember] who won the Heritage [excuse me, RBC] or Colonial or Bay Hill this year?  Only Americans believe that any of those events are more important than Wentworth [now owned by a Chinese billionaire  ] or the Australian Open [if they still have one of those].


The main draw of the PGA TOUR has never been the "competition" -- the main draw has been that it pays better, and nobody wanted to be excluded from that.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is The International a Tripp Davis or Fazio course?

[Wayne_Kozun]

The main draw of the PGA TOUR has never been the "competition" -- the main draw has been that it pays better, and nobody wanted to be excluded from that.

It is interesting that tennis has a majority of its major tournaments outside of the US, and not just Grand Slam tournaments.  But tennis is more global than golf, so there is likely more money to be held by having a truly global tour as there are enough fans to pay money to attend and provide media revenue.  And you also have a global player base that likely prefers playing in different countries.
In golf the interest in the game and the source of revenue is primarily from the US, plus, at least in Men's golf, the vast majority of the top players are American.  But the Women's game is more global - there are six different countries in the top six ranked golfers right now.  And you see that reflected in the paying schedule as the LPGA has more international events, including majors - the LPGA only had one event in the US during July and August.

[Cliff Hamm]

Watched five minutes of Liv golf for the first time. It was awful. Every 15 seconds or so it was just another golf shot. No set up, no idea what club they are hitting, no idea what they need to do…Boring

[John Kavanaugh]

Isn’t it great to see a real time battle for the lead? Shotgun rocks!!!

[Jim_Coleman]

   The International was open to the public when I was a kid. It was called Runaway Brook and it’s claim to fame was that was was the first course over 8,000 yards. I remember one green that was so big that I could not reach the back of the green from the front of the green with a putter.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

36% of events outside the US. At what percentage would you consider it “world-wide”?  45%, 65%, 100%?

More than barely 1/3 for sure. 11/14 are in North America.

[John Kavanaugh]

How can you hate on this leaderboard?


https://www.livgolf.com/

[Tom_Doak]

36% of events outside the US. At what percentage would you consider it “world-wide”?  45%, 65%, 100%?

More than barely 1/3 for sure. 11/14 are in North America.

LIV has the same problem as the PGA Tour in that regard.  If they have more international events, it won't be as attractive to the American players.  If the majority of events are in the USA, it won't be as attractive to overseas players.  The PGA Tour has tried to be more international and to promote events in China and South Korea and Japan, but a lot of the players don't want to go there, especially late in the year.  I can relate . . .

[Erik J. Barzeski]

LIV has the same problem as the PGA Tour in that regard.  If they have more international events, it won't be as attractive to the American players.  If the majority of events are in the USA, it won't be as attractive to overseas players.  The PGA Tour has tried to be more international and to promote events in China and South Korea and Japan, but a lot of the players don't want to go there, especially late in the year.  I can relate . . .

For sure.

They can talk all they want about "growing the game" and about how they're going to be a true world-wide tour, but they know where the audience is.

[Jeff Evagues]

How is having a "tournament" in Boston "growing the game"? The US Open was there 3 months ago.

[Ken Moum]

Apparently someone has realized that "Grow the Game," and "Play less and more family time," wasn't resonating with the public so the talking ponts this week from Lahiri, Watson and Smith, among others, is "I LOVE being part of a team, this is the future of professional golf."


And by the way, now that they are selling team merch for fans, what team is this logo on the left for?  Farting a-holes?

[JohnVDB]

Phil was right in that the tour was keeping a huge cash reserve for themselves and that they could come up with some new ideas to maximize revenue, especially for the top players, but at the detriment of the guys outside of the top 50 or so.
When you think about it - why shouldn't the players get the majority of the say in how the tour is run?  But they only have a minority position on the policy board - there are 5 independents, 4 players and one from the PGA of America.   Is that the proper governance model?

Shipnuck goes through it here: https://firepitcollective.com/phil-was-right-phil-mickelson/

Keeping huge cash reserves for themselves? Who do you mean by themselves? The players are the tour. Who appoints the 5 independents?


Actually it’s going to 5 players

Did Phil ever serve or even run for the advisory board?  Or did he just bitch from the outside rather than actually trying to change things?

[Rob Marshall]

How can you hate on this leaderboard?


https://www.livgolf.com/

Can’t hate it John when I don’t care to look at it


I just looked. I’m pretty sure I can shoot better than 87……….

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Did Phil ever serve or even run for the advisory board?  Or did he just bitch from the outside rather than actually trying to change things?

B.

[Tim Leahy]

The Golf Channel had an interesting commercial on last night from the 9-11 Survivors requesting people call the International Golf Club to protest the LIV and gave out the phone # of the course. Wonder if the commercial will run through the Holiday weekend. Bet the commercial will have more viewers than the LIV.

[Rob Marshall]

This is the shit that gets me. Harold Varner and Bubba Watsons wives should comment on this. This woman appealed her sentence so they gave her a longer one.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/17/saudi-salma-shehab-activist/


I heard Faxon on Sirius this week. He was in the room when Norman proposed his world tour idea. Arnie and Jack were there also. Fax said Arnie stood up and said years earlier he and Jack talked about doing the same thing. Said the two of them would have made a boatload of money…….BUT they decided that they weren’t bigger than the game and they didn’t do it. After making his statement Arnie turned and walked out the door. Mic drop. It was on Friday mornings with Fax.

[cary lichtenstein]

I watched the last 4 hours of LIV today, tough to follow as leaders were on different holes. Not a good format for tv.

[Pete_Pittock]

If there is a playoff do they still use a shotgun start?

[Mark Chaplin]

Watched five minutes of Liv golf for the first time. It was awful. Every 15 seconds or so it was just another golf shot. No set up, no idea what club they are hitting, no idea what they need to do…Boring

Agreed I much prefer watching tee shots, then 5 minutes of adverts, watch the second shots followed by more adverts before the putting. That’s obviously a good day rather than putting, ads, putting on the PGA tour.

[Wayne_Kozun]

So what does LIV hope to achieve in the next year or two?  They have now attracted a number of highly ranked golfers and have certainly garnered a lot of publicity.  Not no one takes them seriously as a golfing event and that doesn't seem to be changing.  If that continues then what are the Saudis actually gaining from all of the money that they spent?  Especially since it appears that there will only be one tournament in Saudi Arabia, which is really no different than the last few years when there was a Euro Tour event in Saudi that attracted a decent field.
So what have they got for all of the money that they spent? 

[Jim Hoak]

I'm waiting for a few very important things to happen--the decision on World Ranking Points, what actions any majors take, any TV contract for LIV events, etc.  But one maybe less-important thing that may happen will also be very interesting--what happens when the first LIV player decides it isn't what he wanted and applies for reinstatement on the European or the US Tour.  May not happen but will be interesting if it does.

[Ken Moum]

Jim, at some point you'd think players booted for "bigger" names might have second thoughts.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Andy Ogletree is hoping to get onto the KF tour, but he is a bit of a unique case. Listen to the Fire Pit podcast with him.

[William_G]

money money money
the players are not bigger than the courses
the players are not bigger than the competition
multi-millionaire pro golfers whining is so boring and unattractive
honesty is more important than the crime you committed against the game of golf
please