Ridgewood #6 Center (#12 composite) - 'Nickel and Dime'

[Philip Caccamise]

One of the world's great holes by one of the world's great designers, the hole fits so naturally into the contours of the hill it's safe to assume Tillie 'found' this one. But did he have help?


Standing on the second tee at Elie GC, I immediately said to my companions "this is the Five and Dime at Ridgewood". Seeing the course on TV this week piqued my interest into verifying my thought. I've put the two holes side by side (note: Elie is rotated 180' and plays facing Southeast while Ridgewood plays Northwest.) Beyond the yardage being virtually identical, note the angle of the tee facing the position bunker, the distance to the position bunker, the wind direction, and the preferred angle into the green. Tillinghast shrank the green and swapped in his style of bunkers for pots, but was this his 'template' or inspiration for #12?

[Joe Bausch]

FWIW:  my photos of the "Five and Dime" at Ridgewood from 2016 at here:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Ridgewood/pages/page_59.html?

[Bill Brightly]

I don't recall Tilly creating template holes. I've played the hole many times and it is superb. The hole before Five and Dime (  downhill par three) has its green on the far corner of the property. Five and Dime parrallels that back up the hill. I think that was just Tilly using the land he had to work with. 

[Stewart Abramson]

Here are a few from the US Am . It's a great match play hole. I was a walking scorer the first four days and was a marshall on the 12th hole (Center $6) yesterday. The green is very narrow. Less than a third of the players that I saw went for the green. Less than half of those hit and stayed on the green. The best match on this hole was Shea Lague (great name) vs Derrick Hitchner in the quarterfinals. Hitchner was one up and had the honor. He laid up to the wide landing area. Lague went for it and hit his tee shot on the green about 12 feet short of the hole. Hitchner hit his approach to 15 feet and sunk his birdie putt. Lague missed the Eagle putt and the hole was halved with very different birdies.



Ridgewood US Am #12 (Center#6)


 
Ridgewood US Am #12 (Center #6)



Ridgewood US Am #12 (Center #6) green  view from front of narrow green to back pin



US Am Ridgewood #12 (Center #6) green View of green from front left


Link to Ridgewood photos from US AM [size=78%]https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720301353111/with/52294278907/[/size]


Link to Arcola photos from day 2 of US Am stroke play [size=78%]https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72177720301358647[/size]


Link to Ridgewood photos (non US Am rounds) [size=78%]https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157719786944245[/size]

[Stewart Abramson]

The hole before Five and Dime (  downhill par three) has its green on the far corner of the property. Five and Dime parrallels that back up the hill. I think that was just Tilly using the land he had to work with.

That hill is used very nicely. In addition to the downhill par 3 #5 on the Center 9 (#11 on the composite course) and the following uphill #6 on the Center 9 (#12 on the composite), the sequence of #5,6 and 7 on the East 9 are immediately adjacent to the north of the aforementioned holes and go up, down and up the hill, but at different angles and varying degrees on steepness. That is a fun corner of the property.

[D_Malley]

Never played RW but the pictures of this hole look very similar to the 8th hole at Philly cricket, prior to Fosters reno.
LMK what others who have played both holes think.

[Phil Young]

Bill,


Tilly used a number of template holes in courses throughout the country. For example, Most know of Somerset Hills fabulous Redan that some believe may be the best one on this side of the Atlantic. Few know that the 11th hole at SFGC was originally a Redan and a fabulous one. The green was changed to a new location in the early 1930s and to its existing design style today by Tilly. It no longer is a Redan. He designed Cape holes, Punchbowls and others during his career. Southward Ho CC, which is about 1/2 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on Long island, would remind many of British seaside courses in how he included numerous greenside runoff areas, what we refer to as chipping areas today, and which the club has recently brought back. He also used individual features such as Mid-Surrey mounding at a number of courses, especially during the teens.


He also created his own template holes. For example, the Double-Dogleg par-5s, Reef and Boomerang holes are examples of these. Many here have played on of his boomerang holes without realizing it. Its the 9th hole on Bethpage Black the original tee which is located on top of the hill to the left of the 8th green and pond and set back into the trees forcing most players to hit straight out from it before having to play back to the green. The angle of this is less than 35 degrees.

[Philip Caccamise]

Bill,


Tilly used a number of template holes in courses throughout the country. For example, Most know of Somerset Hills fabulous Redan that some believe may be the best one on this side of the Atlantic. Few know that the 11th hole at SFGC was originally a Redan and a fabulous one. The green was changed to a new location in the early 1930s and to its existing design style today by Tilly. It no longer is a Redan. He designed Cape holes, Punchbowls and others during his career. Southward Ho CC, which is about 1/2 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on Long island, would remind many of British seaside courses in how he included numerous greenside runoff areas, what we refer to as chipping areas today, and which the club has recently brought back. He also used individual features such as Mid-Surrey mounding at a number of courses, especially during the teens.


He also created his own template holes. For example, the Double-Dogleg par-5s, Reef and Boomerang holes are examples of these. Many here have played on of his boomerang holes without realizing it. Its the 9th hole on Bethpage Black the original tee which is located on top of the hill to the left of the 8th green and pond and set back into the trees forcing most players to hit straight out from it before having to play back to the green. The angle of this is less than 35 degrees.

I agree- while not a template designer obviously, he did pop in a few; certainly Sahara (most famously Bethpage Black, Ridgewood).
While not a pure copy, 10 at Somerset Hills is 'Sunningdale', and clearly a nod to #10 Old, yes?

[Eric LeFante]

This is my favorite short 4 par in championship golf. It seemed pretty split for players laying up vs going for the green. I put this ahead of 10 at Riviera because everyone goes for it now, so I question the strategy and risk/reward of the hole when all the players make the same choice. The 3rd hole at Augusta would round out my top 3 favorites.


This hole was the 5th hole in the championship routing 10-15 years ago and it really benefits from being the 12th hole now. It comes at a crucial part of the match. Carr made a terrible bogey here and then hit it OB on top of Bennett on 13. These two holes really cost him the championship.

[Ira Fishman]

It is a really cool hole. The photos being two dimensional do not do justice to either how much uphill it plays or the amount of slope on the green despite its small size. When we played it last year, our terrific host used full member knowledge in almost making a two by catching the backboard in just the right place.


Ira