The 8th green at Pebble Beach

[Joel_Stewart]

I played Pebble Beach last week just a few days after they reopened the rebuilt green on #8.


To me, the Pebble Beach Company is staying consistent with flattening the greens such as the did with 11 and 14. The slope on 8 from back to front has been reduced by 75%. The back right slope has been reduced by 90%.  There is really no fear on the greens anymore.


Some people will say that some slopes on classic courses need to be reduced because of current green speeds.  Pebble is not that way since everyday play, green speeds are around 9. 


Much of the renovation at Pebble started after the current owners purchased the property in 1999.  One of the key partners was Arnold Palmer who oversaw the changes, mainly adding close to 50 bunkers as well as renovating the greens. It appears that Pebble continues to do the work without a restoration architect and all work is being done in house.


Thoughts?

[Phil Burr]

Although I knew AP was part of an ownership group that included Clint Eastwood, Peter Ueberroth and Dick Ferris, I’m unfamiliar with any significant architectural changes that ensued.  50 new bunkers?  I’ve played PB 8 times, first 1980 and most recently 2011, & I’m unaware of any such changes.  The fairway bunkering schemes on #6, #13 and #15 have been altered, but it’s hard to imagine 50 new bunkers.

[mike_malone]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

[Pete Lavallee]

I first played PB in 1983 and found it to have the most perplexing greens to read of any course I had played until then; I also played Pasatiempo on that trip and had little trouble reading their greens. Fast forward to 2020 for my next round at PB and I found the greens super easy to read and putt, I must have made over 100’ of putts that day. Our playing partners were frankly amazed! There’s no question that the rebuilt greens have eliminated all the micro undulations while softening and homogenizing the surfaces. 

[MCirba]

Sad to read this.

[Daryl David]

Well, it is a resort. Retail golfers need to be made happy and not humiliated.


Where have I heard that before? 

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Interesting that you brought this up, I played there on Wednesday and was more concerned about the new flatness of 11 and 15.  We teed off at 7:30, so there was a touch of moisture still on the green, but there were two balls that probably would have been victims of the false front in the original green.  Due to a poor approach, I was on the far left side of the green, about 10 feet short of the back fringe, and the pin was as far right as possible.  My putt broke from within a foot of the fringe to four feet below the hole, which was about 12 feet. So there is still slope, but there is an absence of the subtle internal contours that in the past, made putts very tricky to hole.
Also, almost every bunker has been rebuilt within the past couple of years, and the style is closer to Aviara Resort than what existed from 1972-82

[MCirba]

I'm supposed to play there for the first time next September (previously walked much of it) and you guys are depressing me.   I already hated the look of the new bunkers and now they're flattening the greens.   

[Matt MacIver]

I played there last Friday and agree the greens don’t have as much internal contours as I was expecting. But the ball bounced some probably because of the poa and slow resort green speeds. They’re in the process of redoing fairway bunkers on left side of 15 now, extending them further down the fairway.

[John Nixon]

How much would one have to "flatten" or "soften" or "homogenize" the greens at PB before there was an effect on its rank in the topmost tier of courses? Or is it impervious to downgrading via changes to the greens? I have no clue, having never seen it, or any other top course either for that matter. 

[PCCraig]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

Joel Stewart also gives away old Augusta National hats in an effort to get more followers on social media. The guardian needs a bigger audience apparently! 

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

Joel Stewart also gives away old Augusta National hats in an effort to get more followers on social media. The guardian needs a bigger audience apparently! 

That hat is 3 months old and has never been worn. Thanks for your warm comments.

[Joel_Stewart]

How much would one have to "flatten" or "soften" or "homogenize" the greens at PB before there was an effect on its rank in the topmost tier of courses? Or is it impervious to downgrading via changes to the greens? I have no clue, having never seen it, or any other top course either for that matter.

Depends on the panelist and magazine.   If you study the history, know the difference between restoration and renovation it should have some effect. Pebble drops out of my personal top 10 to to maybe top 30 or 40.

[mike_malone]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

Joel Stewart also gives away old Augusta National hats in an effort to get more followers on social media. The guardian needs a bigger audience apparently! 

Still think he is a strong advocate for West Coast classic courses and has opinions that aren’t sucking up.

[PCCraig]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

Joel Stewart also gives away old Augusta National hats in an effort to get more followers on social media. The guardian needs a bigger audience apparently! 

Still think he is a strong advocate for West Coast classic courses and has opinions that aren’t sucking up.

Are the opinions genuine or are they intended to gain further audience? Hard to tell?

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel Stewart is the guardian of classic golf.

Are the opinions genuine or are they intended to gain further audience? Hard to tell?

What was intended to be a discussion about the 8th green at Pebble has been thread jacked by someone with no knowledge or opinion but trying to gauge my intentions on Instagram.  What business is it of yours and why do you care.


I sent you a PM to discuss but like a little girl you ran away and didn't respond.


So I blocked you on Instagram mainly because you're an asshole and have no value to this or other sites.


This is exactly what is wrong with this website, a jerkoff ruins a thread and there is no oversight.

[Kalen Braley]

For more context on the work at #8 in case anyone missed it...

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70962.0.html

[AChao]

I think it’s mostly a function of future major championships, the need to accommodate green speeds, more hole locations, and how there is a very wide range of players who are lining up to play Pebble.  I just played Pebble for the first time in a very long time and was pretty surprised by how different it is from what I remember. 

I played Pebble Beach last week just a few days after they reopened the rebuilt green on #8.


To me, the Pebble Beach Company is staying consistent with flattening the greens such as the did with 11 and 14. The slope on 8 from back to front has been reduced by 75%. The back right slope has been reduced by 90%.  There is really no fear on the greens anymore.


Some people will say that some slopes on classic courses need to be reduced because of current green speeds.  Pebble is not that way since everyday play, green speeds are around 9. 


Much of the renovation at Pebble started after the current owners purchased the property in 1999.  One of the key partners was Arnold Palmer who oversaw the changes, mainly adding close to 50 bunkers as well as renovating the greens. It appears that Pebble continues to do the work without a restoration architect and all work is being done in house.


Thoughts?

[Keith Phillips]

One possible mitigating point - the greens at Pebble are tiny...there is only room for so much undulation, particularly at Tour speeds.  I played Winged Foot West the other day and was stunned by the scale of the undulations and the number of dramatic false fronts - I was blown away by those greens.

[Joel_Stewart]

One possible mitigating point - the greens at Pebble are tiny...there is only room for so much undulation, particularly at Tour speeds.  I played Winged Foot West the other day and was stunned by the scale of the undulations and the number of dramatic false fronts - I was blown away by those greens.

It's a little different because Pebble is a resort and they are trying to push as many people through as possible.


I played Oakmont recently and saw the plans for Gils work.  He going to restore the greens by expanding them, mainly by knocking down the buildup of sand that has accumulated over the years. I'm not sure if a member misunderstood Gil but he said it would make it harder for the pros and easier for the membership?