The parlous state of Scottish Golf...

« **on:** November 28, 2003, 05:05:58 AM »

I meant to post this earlier. From last friday's 'Scotsman' - Any wealthy GCAers fancy a buyout (or maybe a joint GCA bid???)

Redundancies as Drumoig closes

MIKE AITKEN

THE doors of the Scottish National Golf Centre at Drumoig, near St Andrews, closed yesterday after the receiver was unable to find a buyer in the short term. Although a number of parties have expressed an interest in purchasing the facility, continuing losses made it impossible to keep the enterprise going.

Opened at a cost of £4.3million by the Scottish Golf Union in 1999, the facility has been described by Butch Harmon, coach to Tiger Woods, as one of the best in the world. However, its remote location meant the Centre haemorrhaged significant annual losses of between £300,000 and £400,000 before going into receivership three months ago.

Blair Nimmo, head of KPMG’s Corporate Recovery in Scotland, yesterday confirmed that 11 of the 13 employees at Drumoig would now be made redundant. "Unfortunately, at this time of year trading is such that we have had to close the Centre as it continues to incur significant losses," he said. "We will operate the Centre on a care-and-maintenance basis while we pursue a number of interested parties.

"Obviously it is with disappointment that we have had to make this announcement and we would like to thank all those concerned for their co-operation to date. Despite the present situation, we are still hopeful of achieving a sale that will allow the Centre to re-open."

The Centre, which offers state-of-the-art teaching, coaching and practice facilities, was built thanks to a combination of £1.2million in lottery funding and a £2.2million levy on all Scottish golf club members.

The Royal and Ancient also contributed £150,000. The terms of the lease are such that any interested buyer must run the facility as a golf academy and should be some sort of golf organisation.

Sad, eh?
Martin.

« **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2003, 05:26:55 AM »

Sad, yes. Around me here in Cheshire there were a number of country club-style courses built in the 80s and 90s and all but one went into receivership. Elsewhere, Loch Lomond failed at first and I think Chart Hills and East Sussex National have been through perilous times financially. There is now so much spare capacity in our local golf provision that many lesser clubs waive joining fees and are having to advertise in the local press to try to recruit new members. The new courses/clubs which are prospering in this part of the country are the simplest, mostly pay-and-play.

« **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2003, 05:44:27 AM »

Seems to be a recurring problem and not just in Scotland obviously.
The SNGC is a tremendous facility. We did a re-design proposal of the layout as part of our student work last year and got to give a presentation to the staff who were clearly very knowledgeable and highly professional. It's them I feel most sorry for.
I guess the location was what did for it eventually. Although it's really handy for St Andrews/Dundee, it doesn't really have any 'passing trade'.
I think that anything purporting to be 'The Scottish National' whatever, simply HAS to be located on the M8 midway between Glasgow and Edinburgh. Only there can it hope to have enough custom from a significantly large population to enable it to survive.
Let's hope someone can think of a way to re-open the SNGC profitably and SOON!

Martin.

« **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2003, 06:30:05 AM »

Martin

With all due respect, this idea was a loser from the start. When you get to Florida, try to find the "US National Golf Center" or even the "Flordia Golf Center" or even the "Orlando Golf Center" or even the "Kissimmee Golf Center next to the IHOP off International Drive." good luck!

This was a typically European corporatist/statist solution to a "problem" which could and should be handled at the local level. My local club has been paying about $10,000/year for Drumoig since it opened, and has received absolutely no benefits, direct or indirect from this levy. What if they had taken that money and put it into local facilities and the local pros, to build the game on a grassroots basis? Well, they wouldn't have had the fancy facility and the grand openings with all the Dukes and Duchesses, but they might just have had a more highly developed golfing scene in Scotland, no?

End of rant......

Bon Voyaqe!

« **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2003, 06:50:59 AM »

Quote from: Rich Goodale on November 28, 2003, 06:30:05 AM

Martin

With all due respect, this idea was a loser from the start. When you get to Florida, try to find the "US National Golf Center" or even the "Flordia Golf Center" or even the "Orlando Golf Center" or even the "Kissimmee Golf Center next to the IHOP off International Drive." good luck!

Rich,
With even more due respect

.
You 'meric'n's have apparently simply bypassed the idea of a 'US National Golf Center' and have gone straight to the 'WORLD Golf Village' (which appears to have even less attraction or appeal than the SNGC). Now talk to me about corporatism/statism!!!
Agreed re the levy - you and me both own a couple of bricks at the SNGC - let's nip along there and take 'em!!

Martin.

« **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2003, 07:37:07 AM »

Martin!

Golf Village is a theme park. Drumoig was an attempt to lift the quality of Scottish golf development to the level of the Swedish model. Swedes will travel 1000 kilometres nonstop to a "Golf Centre" because there is nothing much in between, and pints cost about 15 quid if you want to stop along the way. Scots have different priorities.

BTW--go to Golf Village, if only to visit St. Augustine, which is just about the only place in Florida which does not have "nae culture." History, old buildings, local crafstmen good vittles and don't miss the Alligator Farm!

Cheers

Rich

« **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2003, 08:16:08 AM »

I would not be surprised if world Golf Village suffers the same fate. I get the feeling it is barely holding on.

« **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2003, 08:31:28 AM »

Rich:

I'm impressed you've even heard of Kissimmee, Florida! I'm impressed but I can't imagine why you've heard of it. I'm quite certain, though, that you own nothing which if left there you'd want to go back and get. Perhaps your wife and children but I doubt they'd ever allow you to leave them there.

« **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2003, 08:53:49 AM »

Rich;

Don't ever jump on us Americans over here again for using bullshit politically correct euphemisms;

"Blair Nimmo, head of KPMG’s Corporate Recovery in Scotland, yesterday confirmed that 11 of the 13 employees at Drumoig would now be made redundant."

What kind of crap is that? Did those 11 employees get fired or can they continue to hang around Drumoig and get paid and act really redundant and do nothing?

And this:

"We will operate the Centre on a care-and-maintenance basis....."

Really!? Maybe the Scottish Golfing Whatever should've done that in the first place and Drumoig might not be in the pickle it is now.

« **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2003, 09:52:57 AM »

Tom

Kissimmee is where 97.295% of all British people take their "American" holidays. Next time you wonder why we get a bad press in Europe, think of that.........

"Redundancy" is a great British euphemism for getting shit-canned. My wife has been trying to be "made redundant" for a year now (you get great benefit packages for such here in the only Socialist Peoples Republic since Hoxha left Albania), but she's too talented, alas.....

I think you've hit the jackpot with that "care and maintenance" comment. God forbid that one should run a "National Golf Facility" using those standards!

Don't fret, however--fatbaldydrummer and I have plans for turning that turkey into something that Adam Smith would be proud of!

« **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2003, 10:55:03 AM »

Rich I am pleased you know where the middle class Brits hang when in the land of ears. Yes that testiment to the 50's has a run of motels which could be the set of Route 66. Oh yes there is a Krispy Kreme along there too. I cannot say much for the golf though.

« **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2003, 11:31:12 AM »

Why does the Russian Tea room come to my mind? Maybe it was the 4.3 mil Lbs.

That makes me think the USGA should bail these guys out. Then maybe they could have a base of ops in close prox to the cross bearing jesuits.

Could someone clarify please. Is this a golf course too? or just a centre?

« **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2003, 12:09:23 PM »

Adam,
See their website for full details...

http://www.sngc.scottishgolf.com/

The Centre is adjacent to a very upmarket housing area, an hotel and an 18 hole course which seems to operate separately.
The course is in the main a bit bland and featureless but has a couple of cracking good holes with greens set into old quarries.

Martin.

« **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2003, 05:49:50 PM »

Don't get much chance to get involved with the GCA discussions, but did notice some comments on the Drumoig fiasco ! Right from the start of this project in the early 1990's - the whole thing stank of the dirty stuff ! The administrators at the SGU (Scottish Golf Union) got away with murder (so to speak) by aquiring their main source of funding via a very dubious back door ? I remember it well, and was scunnered by it then, and even more so now !

A very well kent elderly face in pro teaching / coaching who shall remain nameless ; from Largs ; and who has a very aimiable golfing son ; with a heavy moustache ; who is married to a lovely actress ; showed his dissent via the columns of the Scotsman with another less famous gentleman. Like myself, they completely disputed and questioned the way the project was being administered.

Funds were to be raked in courtesy of all Scottish golf clubs with a little help from the secs & treas's of each. Every golfer (including non Scots) who were affiliated to the SGU would be levied for this privilege of building the SNGC and the treasurers of each club were expected to just sign and post off the cheques ? Too few dissenting voices meant that the ploy was carried off with ease and club members paid for it for years to come.

Add to this the fact that they received £1.1m of Lottery Funding and a good bung from the imperial rulers at the R & A, and you should have what they (the business experts and funders) tend to call a "viable" business concept

??

Now you may be thinking that I've got some sort of axe grinding away here - well you'd be bloody well right ! I'd gladly take £4.5m of public money ; put £50K into reviving Hickory Golf ; then give the rest back to the long suffering public !
Better make that £100K - just to be on the safe side.

So please don't feel sad about the demise of Drumoig. That money could have filled a lot of empty bellies !
Ironically, the actual principle of the centre had very few objectors, including myself. But the politics of it all - oh dear me ?

GCA is wonderful. So are the smilies

« **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2003, 06:15:37 PM »

Alfie- Welcome! In the words of one our American scam artists "I feel your pain". It really saddens the soul to know that even golf in Scotland succumbs to the ego of individuals and it always seems to especially suck when they're bureaucrats.

Moving on, is there any suitable use for what is there? or do they just need to wait-out the population growth?

Someone mentioned a resort and course nearby, does this imply growth?

« **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2003, 06:44:52 PM »

Rich said;

"Tom
Kissimmee is where 97.295% of all British people take their "American" holidays. Next time you wonder why we get a bad press in Europe, think of that........."

Rich:

Frankly, that's hilarious and I did not know that. Of course that explains a good deal and from now on I'll be far more gentle when I react to what the people of the British Isles says about America. I realize that various cultures in the Middle East are into self-flagalation but I did not know until you told me that 97.295% of all British people take their "American" holidays in Kissimmee, Florida that the people of the British Isles are into self-flagalation too!! (At least while one their "American" holidays).

« **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2003, 06:50:32 PM »

Adam

Drumoig is only about 5 miles from St. Andrews, so it isn't as if it lacking in golf catchment area terms........

« **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2003, 07:07:22 PM »

Alfie,
A genuine joy and pleasure at seeing you posting here. This place needs gentlemen of your stature and experience. Please don't be a stranger any longer.
You bring so much practical knowledge and experience here!
That was just about Post of the year. I am humbled by your 'true-life' experience.
GCAers witter on endlessly about the 'look or feel of such and such a hole at such and such a course' with little regard for the real realities of commercial operations.
How can I help revive Hickory Golf? I am free at the moment so if it involves manual or intellectual work, let's go!

Best,
Martin.

PS Rich could wield a mean shovel!!!

PPS Gold Star award for the use of the word 'Scunnered' on this DG!!!!

« **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2003, 10:36:27 PM »

Martin,
You flatter me with your kind words.....keep em coming.
From what I've witnessed on my brief encounters with GCA, there is no shortage of gentlemen with stature and experience. We're all golfers, after all ! Has anyone nominated RAN for President yet ? or maybe Prime Minister ?
Revive Hickory Golf ? Well, you could start by getting me 100 members at say £100 each and we would be staring feasibility in the face. Get 500 and we'd be cooking with gas. You sell - and I'll tell.
A wee story from Arbory's first customers ; When the course was ready for play and after we were allowed to open, it was too late in the year to expect much custom. So we decided to try and entice some local golfers to try hickory for free. Selling the experience was hard - giving it away was even harder ! Anyway, my brother Harry managed to coax a friend who was a scratch player and club champion at two local courses up for a game. But he asked that we allow him to play his second nine holes with his own modern techno crap. We agreed and he came up and duly played 9 holes after having been briefed as to what hickory golf was all about. As he came off the 9th green with an excellent 37 against the old record of 34 having "played the ball as it lay" I walked up to him with his 1cwt bag of impliments in one hand and requesting the return of my hickories with the other. Stutter.. stammer... eh.. Well - "Is it OK if I just play another nine with these" he enquired. Of course, he did. And even shaved another stroke off his 37. Admittedly playing with the more modern "gutty" ball as opposed to the real GUTTA.
From that moment I knew we had something special and not just the pipe dream of two brotherly nutters ! The problem that lay ahead was in how to sell Hickory Golf to similar pessimists with nae cash in the bank. The rest is 'history'.

Now I'm wittering on. Goodnight golfers wherever you are.

best regards,

Alfie

« **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2003, 01:28:21 AM »

Greetings Alfie, It truly is great to see you here but wishing you had better news. I played your course in early June of 2002 and had a great time. Heck, you walked both 9's with me and explained anything and everything about your long endeavor with Arbory Brae and the one(!) letter of support that you received from Ben Crenshaw. I still have the gutty I rolled in my palms that you boiled in your "Royal" clubhouse; my most precious souvenir beyond the great memories.
I ran and got my lady to show her you were on GCA and she got all excited too. Hey! I thought you said you were going to the clubhouse to check on the tea kettle! You rascal.

Thanks for the grand day out Alfie, be well.
Norbert of Oregon

« **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2003, 07:14:55 AM »

Hi Norbert,
Ah memories ! Yes I remember your visit - please give Mrs P my best regards - ah the memories ? Only kiddin' !
By the way, that small piece of gutta percha you aquired was a down payment for the 500 or so custumers you were going to send over ? You know, the trouble with the Yanks is that - there are too many of the buggers staying in America !

They're blaming locality for the failure of Drumoig (crap) and I could say the same for Arbory. I built it 3000 miles on the wrong side of East ! $:-\$
One of Arbory's successes was in me meeting guys (& gals) like you, with that wee bit of golfing humanity still in there. When the golfer loses that - we can forget about any future for the game. Technology or otherwise.
Hope your game has improved, Norbert. I mean really improved ! Better get the kettle on, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more

PS ; you have a "gutta", not a gutty. And I hope you've been knockin' the shit out of it. A gutta ball is not just for Xmas ?

very best regards,

Alfie.

« **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2003, 02:08:31 PM »

Alfie, you crack me up. It's 11 AM but I just poured me a nip of the spirits to salute you. Slainte'

Yes, my game has improved immensely... I've taken up chess!

« **Reply #22 on:** November 29, 2003, 02:43:03 PM »

Norbert,

Great reply - chess is a good game, if you have the brain for it. Mine has turned into mince with too much golf talk.
Be sure to let me know if you're planning another trip to auld Scotia.

Cheers. Here's tae us, wha's like us ? Damn few, and thir aw deid !

Alfie

« **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2003, 10:07:01 AM »

Rich It sure seemed further than 5 miles away from St. Andrews. It seemed a long way from anywhere in particular. lol

« **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2003, 11:09:50 AM »

You're right, John. I checked and it's 8 miles away. Mea Culpa.

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