[V. Kmetz]

...for the mechanical commercial of elite golf as it has become. Its beauty, charms, proverbs and truths are meant for play, for sport, for the zeitgeist of golf and aged experience.  To heap these modern duties of hosting, extracting commerce, imposing facility, accommodating media is to subject it to locusts, to render it disposable like any other puffed-up thing.


But that's a macro picture; the granular decay is that this just doesn't stand up or show very well in the face of what the professional game has become.  I think it is time to retire or ceremonialize it with less frequency as an Open venue in that regard.



The level of driving to, at, thru, over, around the greens, leaving second shots of 150-250 feet is ridiculous, almost a chip-off...Think about 6-12...as this competition plays it... that's nearly 7 one shot holes in a row! (I get it; I get it; 6, 7 and 10 are not routinely drivable)  and then 18?... 100> foot shots for 2 everywhere.



As fascinating and elusive as I, or you, may find those 150 foot windblown contoured chips and rolls with a club in our hands, a repeated series of them on TV dulls the eyes into the exact kind of napping torpor associated with tournament golf from afar.


And again, though there is a lovely "in situ" charm of crossing holes, shared fairways and double greens when one is playing TOC, it produces a plodding near 6 hour pace to the spectacle of watching a competition there.  Moreover, these features cause the players to hesitate and heed nearby action, whereby I see rushed or impatient delays.[size=78%] [/size]

I treasure TOC and what it represents in so many ways, but though a lively scoring competition is afoot and fine players dot the proceedings...and a worthy winner will be crowned... there is something so stupid and silly about modern elite golf playing it and a modern exploitations forced upon it to do so.

[Tom_Doak]

... there is something so stupid and silly about modern elite golf

Fixed that for you.   

[Peter Sayegh]

... there is something so stupid and silly about modern elite golf

Fixed that for you.   

...there is something silly about modern elite golf

Fixed that for you.

[MCirba]

V. Kmetz,


Right now -8 is leading well into round 2.


If 5 and 14 were deemed long par fours and the leaders were -4 would that make a difference?


Lots of silliness in the world these days but I'm enjoying watching the ball roll.

[Tim Martin]

The afternoon groups were taking in excess of six hours to play as VK referenced above. Rory McIlroy said it is to be expected the first two days with threesomes while Matt Fitzpatrick was quoted as saying “This shouldn’t be happening ever in golf.” Is the number of drivable holes and crossovers the issue? While there are no lack of excruciatingly slow rounds in professional golf this seems next level slow.

[Ronald Montesano]

What does it become, if it becomes the third in a line of Prestwick and Musselburgh?

[V. Kmetz]

MC, I need no support to know that the concept of hole par is rendered as meaningless as anywhere in this exhibition...and is WF producing +scores or minus scores because 5, 9 and 16 are posing as 4s? Still, I'm surprised at your response, because you were vocal that Riviera produced 3 rds with a -19 leader back in February.


And realize I wasn't speaking about par score primarily...I'm talking about putts and chips for 2 everywhere...about a third of the course...and I'm speaking about the competition, which is proving exactly what with so many repeated shots?...I mean let's just go over to the Himalayas and have it out, no?


I enjoy the ball rolling around too...but that's dominating what happens on the screen and in the competition...time for the ol' girl to take a break I think.

V. Kmetz,

Right now -8 is leading well into round 2.

If 5 and 14 were deemed long par fours and the leaders were -4 would that make a difference?

Lots of silliness in the world these days but I'm enjoying watching the ball roll.

[V. Kmetz]

... there is something so stupid and silly about modern elite golf

Fixed that for you.   

...there is something silly about modern elite golf

Fixed that for you.

You good fellows are both right, but I said what I meant...to me there was nothing boring, repeated or uniteresting about TCC or SH...and the Masters i the best watch of golf on any course I observe.


But if Rahm or Daly win, I take it all back

[Rob Marshall]

6 hour plus round for Tigers group today. Too many drivable par 4's??

[cary lichtenstein]

...for the mechanical commercial of elite golf as it has become. Its beauty, charms, proverbs and truths are meant for play, for sport, for the zeitgeist of golf and aged experience.  To heap these modern duties of hosting, extracting commerce, imposing facility, accommodating media is to subject it to locusts, to render it disposable like any other puffed-up thing.


For us mere mortals, how about a repeat of this post in simple plain english, thank you


But that's a macro picture; the granular decay is that this just doesn't stand up or show very well in the face of what the professional game has become.  I think it is time to retire or ceremonialize it with less frequency as an Open venue in that regard.



The level of driving to, at, thru, over, around the greens, leaving second shots of 150-250 feet is ridiculous, almost a chip-off...Think about 6-12...as this competition plays it... that's nearly 7 one shot holes in a row! (I get it; I get it; 6, 7 and 10 are not routinely drivable)  and then 18?... 100> foot shots for 2 everywhere.



As fascinating and elusive as I, or you, may find those 150 foot windblown contoured chips and rolls with a club in our hands, a repeated series of them on TV dulls the eyes into the exact kind of napping torpor associated with tournament golf from afar.


And again, though there is a lovely "in situ" charm of crossing holes, shared fairways and double greens when one is playing TOC, it produces a plodding near 6 hour pace to the spectacle of watching a competition there.  Moreover, these features cause the players to hesitate and heed nearby action, whereby I see rushed or impatient delays.

I treasure TOC and what it represents in so many ways, but though a lively scoring competition is afoot and fine players dot the proceedings...and a worthy winner will be crowned... there is something so stupid and silly about modern elite golf playing it and a modern exploitations forced upon it to do so.

[MCirba]

V. Kmetz,


The one element that I think we need to think about as well is wind.   Going back to Faldo 32 years ago we all knew the course can be dismantled in benign summer conditions.   32 years of technological improvements and the ProV1 and physical conditioning later it is what it is there as long as the weather stays tame.


However, when the wind picked up Thursday afternoon I think the course proved an adequate defense and it was certainly interesting to watch.


Your points are all well taken...just pointing out that we'd likely have this at any links course without deep rough and narrowed fairways.   

[Peter Pallotta]

It's interesting what different eyes will see. Some see a tired and beaten-down golf course, old in name and in sense and sensibility, while others see a subtle and stylish pride, and a still indomitable spirit there. So maybe what we're in fact seeing is that TOC is neither, or both, and/or outside simple dichotomies and trite dualities, and not proscribed by such polarities. Maybe instead like Kurtz in Heart of Darkness (or at least in Apocalypse Now), TOC is beyond our lying, petty moralities, and thus beyond caring. (Sadly, if so that would make the likes of me not an astute observer, but merely an errand boy, sent by a grocery clerk, to collect a bill.) But if so, that is a good thing, because we need that these days. Augusta is a great golf course, but it is most definitely -not- beyond caring. Indeed, it cares much too much, and about many of the wrong kind of things.
(A pale fading beauty is still beautiful, and for me the most beautiful of all.)

[Tim_Cronin]

It's fine. A test for the ages. A test for the soul.

[John Handley]

interesting how "we" are opining about the merits if TOC and modern golf.  I'm betting that if you asked the BEST players in the world, all of whom are ACTUALLY at TOC, they might say how awesome it is.  Maybe that is a little more relevant than "our" opinions.  Just sayin'

[Peter Sayegh]

(continuing the thread title)...and that's a good thing, the more I think about it.

I care very little if the pros or elite players can carve up TOC. Seeing it on TV reminds me I have to experience it. If this week's winner posts -31 (pick a number), it would have no bearing on my wish to play the course.

[Peter Flory]

I found Cam Smith's post round interview interesting.  He mentioned that at first, he was playing it too much like a links- hitting the ball too low, playing the ground game too much.  Once he started playing it more normally and used loft and spin, he started to have better results.  That makes sense when you consider that they have short irons into everything.  Several 400+ yard drives. 

[Peter Pallotta]

From tv only:
30 PGA Tour stops, all look different but play exactly the same; the Open rota courses, all look the same, but play very differently.
The definition/expression of architectural subtlety.

[Ronald Montesano]

For us humans, it's a links. For Cam Smith, it's controllable like any other golfing ground.

VKmetz opening salvo is the best thing I've seen written this week, and that includes my own prose. I shall endeavor to approach its skill over the next two days, without plagiarizing.

Superintendents, am I wrong in stating that the location of the holes determines the extremity of the Old Course?

[Ronald Montesano]

...

[Connor Lewis]

If you don’t mind, I will put a historical spin on some of your comments. The one thing I can say for certain is that history repeats itself.


Bryson DeChambeau has been blasted for saying that any given course’s real par is in the 60s rather than it’s published par. He has been blasted for it, but he is 100% correct.


This isn’t a new argument it’s a 120 year old one. Prior to the advent of the Haskell Ball (a ball that rewarded not just professionals but all golfers with massive yardage gains) the term “bogey” was a term that described the ideal score for a given hole. After the Haskell was introduced the term bogey slowly drifted into a word for an unsatisfactory score and “par” became elevated to the ideal score.


That’s a slight oversimplification of the process but in its day Oakmont was a par of 80. Technology has always effected the “ideal” score per hole.


Now I believe a rollback is underway, but the obsolescence of golf courses is an aged argument. We have have treated such threats two ways- 1) adjusting par and 2) rollbacks.


I don’t overreact to low scores at the Old Course especially when the weather is benign, I expect it.

[Sean_A]

If you don’t mind, I will put a historical spin on some of your comments. The one thing I can say for certain is that history repeats itself.


Bryson DeChambeau has been blasted for saying that any given course’s real par is in the 60s rather than it’s published par. He has been blasted for it, but he is 100% correct.


This isn’t a new argument it’s a 120 year old one. Prior to the advent of the Haskell Ball (a ball that rewarded not just professionals but all golfers with massive yardage gains) the term “bogey” was a term that described the ideal score for a given hole. After the Haskell was introduced the term bogey slowly drifted into a word for an unsatisfactory score and “par” became elevated to the ideal score.


That’s a slight oversimplification of the process but in its day Oakmont was a par of 80. Technology has always effected the “ideal” score per hole.


Now I believe a rollback is underway, but the obsolescence of golf courses is an aged argument. We have have treated such threats two ways- 1) adjusting par and 2) rollbacks.


I don’t overreact to low scores at the Old Course especially when the weather is benign, I expect it.

For many years clubs listed bogey and par scores..I am talking well into my lifetime. I have seen a few in the past 30 years. Generally the difference was 3-6 shots. I wish we kept bogey score as its a far more realistic handicap player measuring stick against the course. Of course the real measuring stick is the lowest score.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Hopefully, fingers crossed, an equipment rollback will be introduced (for way more than just for TOC reasons).
As to TOC, if nothing is done rollback wise then maybe its time for a composite 18-hole course incorporating holes from TOC, the New, the Eden and the Jubilee into a routing on which to hold The Open when it's held in St Andrews?
atb

[Jeff Schley]

Hopefully, fingers crossed, an equipment rollback will be introduced (for way more than just for TOC reasons).
As to TOC, if nothing is done rollback wise then maybe its time for a composite 18-hole course incorporating holes from TOC, the New, the Eden and the Jubilee into a routing on which to hold The Open when it's held in St Andrews?
atb

Interesting Thomas.  Or as it plays as a par 72 with only two par 5's and two par 3's.  Maybe build another couple tee boxes and make 9 and 12 par 3's?  270-320 yards depending on conditions?

[Peter Sayegh]

As to TOC, if nothing is done rollback wise then maybe its time for a composite 18-hole course incorporating holes from TOC, the New, the Eden and the Jubilee into a routing on which to hold The Open when it's held in St Andrews?
atb

In that scenario, how many fans/viewers would be able to play that Open course? I think that matters.
Again, let em shoot -60. Who cares? It is a competition, after all.

[Dan_Callahan]

I love the way the course looks. I’m sure I’d love the way it plays. I don’t care how low the winning score is. But a 6+ hour round is absurd. And for once it’s not because guys are taking forever to read putts or to hit. This time, the length of the rounds is directly related to the design of the course.

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