A Redan/Nader

[Sven Nilsen]

Are there any par 3 holes that can effectively work as a redan and a reverse redan depending on whether the pin is on the left or right?  Where shots on the middle left side will feed to the back left, and shots on the middle right will feed to the back right?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sven,


Are you still considering the green at an angle? If so, is it at the Redan angle or the Reverse Redan angle? Or does that not matter?

[Kyle Harris]

Sven,


Are you still considering the green at an angle? If so, is it at the Redan angle or the Reverse Redan angle? Or does that not matter?

I think he means it’s both. Think of a V.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sven,


Are you still considering the green at an angle? If so, is it at the Redan angle or the Reverse Redan angle? Or does that not matter?

I think he means it’s both. Think of a V.

Yes, but if a green is still angled to the orientation of play, achieving one of those aims is much easier than achieving both. If the green centreline is on the angle of play, the whole task becomes easier… but you are becoming so far removed from what a Redan is, can we still call it that?

[SL_Solow]

Sounds  very much like a punchbowl except that you want the ball to continue to roll up the slope on the other side.  I suppose there could be a near funnel at yhe front that would lead to the back but I really don't understand the resulting interest

[Ronald Montesano]

There is a GREAT difference between a Redan / Reverse Redan green (angled against tee shot), and a double kickslope green. They cannot be the same thing.

[Jason Thurman]

Maybe there are shades of this at Augusta's 6th? It was allegedly designed as a redan green, but has that pinnable shelf back right. But there's no slope in the middle of the green to kick a ball back there that I've ever noticed. It's more like a shot hit to the middle will feed left, while the back right shelf is maybe best accessed by bounding one in off the kickslope right of the green. So... more of a double redan than a redan/nader.


It's interesting to think about a green with two "wings" on either side of a central ridge that could feed balls in either direction. There's a green similar to this on my home course. Putting or pitching across the ridge is a real challenge when you get a ball on the wrong side. An imprecise shot that hits the wrong side of the central ridge on such a hole could be a really awful miss.


And this topic gets me thinking - if we had gotten more time with Strantz, would he have eventually built one of his par 3s with tees at so many angles that you could approach a green from the far left to create a reverse-redan, from the far right to create a redan, and from the middle to create something more like an Eden?

[Tal Oz]

I can visualize this in two ways right now, but neither of which would totally qualify as I don't think either bounds balls to the back left and back right.
First would be 10 at Chicago, where the double thumbprint feeds balls left or right.
Second would be 17 at Pebble or 11 at Rustic Canyon (a par 4, so that also disqualifies it) where a center spine bisects the green into two separate halves.

[Steve Salmen]

The closest I can think of would be a par 3 with a green similar to the 6th at Whistling Straits.  The tee box would be a little right of the fairway to line up nicely with the bunker.