Watched some Liv golf.

[John Kavanaugh]

Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?

[Tim_Cronin]

and it should be LIV, which is roman numerals for 54, the number of holes played. By the way, since it is Saudi Arabia money, why aren't they using (western) arabic numbers, or require the players to record their scores using roman numerals

I do that sometimes. I put an X on my card!

[Wayne_Kozun]

Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?

Moe Norman?

[John Kavanaugh]

Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?

Moe Norman?

I believe it was Dave Barr.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?

Moe Norman?

I believe it was Dave Barr.

Barr almost won your country’s Open, not his country’s Open. 1985 US Open at Oakland Hills. Mike Weir almost won the Canadian Open in 2004, he lost in a playoff to Vijay.

[Steve Lang]

   SEEMS LIKE ALL THOSE WHO PARTICIPATE IN SHOTGUN TOONAMINTS WILL RELATE...  AND AREN'T THE PGA VENUES GENERALLY MANIPULATED TO MAKE THE FIELD LOOK GOOD OR BAD, THE LATTER DEALING WITH THE CUT...

[Kalen Braley]

I guess i'm more interested in the longer game implications:

1)  Will non-established players be fine with not getting into majors or not playing bigger Tour events like Jacks tourney?

2)  Will better players be tempted to go back to the Tour once their major exemptions run out?

3)  Will the Saudis be OK with taking indefinite losses?  (I don't see how they will recoup anywhere near some of these alleged signing bonus amounts.)

4)  What kind of sponsorship, TV Deals can they make.  Certainly YouTube events are not the future...

[Jim Hoak]

Kalen--Those are the key questions--and I'd add two more--


5)  Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?


6)  What will the Tours do when LIV players try to rejoin the established tours?

[John Kavanaugh]

What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.

[Edward Glidewell]

5)  Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?

I think this is almost a moot point. Even if they do get ranking points, there won't be many available -- small fields without many highly ranked players -- and they only have 8 events. There's really no scenario in which these players don't quickly fall down the OWGR with those limitations.

[JohnVDB]

What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.

Maybe you’ll learn there are a hell of a lot of good to great players out there who just needed a chance.

[Tim_Cronin]

What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.

Maybe you’ll learn there are a hell of a lot of good to great players out there who just needed a chance.

Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).

[Brian_Ewen]

Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).

Yet another North American comparison point misser.

[Tim_Cronin]

Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).

Yet another North American comparison point misser.

Feel free to explain how.

[Dave Doxey]

I just finished watching on YouTube.   Coming in with an open mind and limited expectations, I was very impressed with the telecast.   What struck me was the almost continuous showing of golf shots.  As one who watches golf to see golf shots, I’d like to see the comparison of shots shown per hour between LIV and PGA Tour.  I’d bet that LIV had at least 3X the number of shots covered.  No commercial breaks, no fluff segments, no announcer babble, no 5 minutes wasted as the sponsor CEO said how glad his company was to dump money on the event and how great the course, weather, and fans were.  No minutes wasted as players paced around the fairway, stalked putts, stood across putt lines, read yardage books, or had long discussions with caddies.  No long musical lead-ins or taped segments on the local area.  Watching the packed progression of golf shots of all kinds, good and bad, was enjoyable.  PGA television can learn a lot in this area.


On the negative side, regardless of how much the announcers played it up, the team competition was a non event and added nothing to interest in the telecast.  Zero interest. I can’t imagine team competition remaining very long.


Other notes.  Shot tracking was used overly sparingly.  The leader board “pylon” was useful.  Drone shots used were helpful, as was the “player tracker” which showed where members of the threesome were located on the hole from above.  The announcers held back on chatter, allowing the video to account for itself.  Honest comments on shots, both good and bad.  No making excuses for the players.  Background sound was well managed, with no idiots yelling “bababoey”, “mashed potato” or “get in the hole” after every shot.  Lack of commercial interruptions was a joy, but I assume that they’ll creep in after TV contracts are in place.. 


I’m sure the LIV haters will find faults, but I’ll watch LIV over the standard Tour broadcast any day. 

[Jim_Coleman]

   Would you be willing to pay to watch the show? Because, if not, you really have no standing to complain about commercials on free tv.

[Tim_Cronin]

Dave, I agree. A well-produced telecast that improved each day. LIV's TV advisor/consultant is David Hill, who created Fox Sports out of nothing, and the producer is Steve Biem, an old Fox hand who worked on some of their USGA shows, which improved year-to-year.


The only beef is the excess licking of the LIV's hind end. Too much promotion – no need, we're already watching. Su-Ann was all right on course reporting but doesn't know how to ask a question. Someone else is needed in that role. And Jerry Foltz diminishes his reputation by saying things like the fans love Patrick Reed. Uh, no.


Now, once they figure out how to improve the names on the leader board pylon, they'll have something.

[John Kavanaugh]

Was there a blimp?

[Dave Doxey]

   Would you be willing to pay to watch the show? Because, if not, you really have no standing to complain about commercials on free tv.

I already pay to watch the Golf channel and networks on cable & satellite....AND I get hit with commercials.

[Brian_Ewen]

Feel free to explain how.

Geezo, is it not obvious?

[Tim_Cronin]

Feel free to explain how.

Geezo, is it not obvious?

There are so many things to pick from with LIV Golf. Not sure which one(s) you're most opposed to. They may match mine or differ.

[Mark Smolens]

5)  Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?

I think this is almost a moot point. Even if they do get ranking points, there won't be many available -- small fields without many highly ranked players -- and they only have 8 events. There's really no scenario in which these players don't quickly fall down the OWGR with those limitations.

Didn't I read somewhere that a new tour has to demonstrate viability for a year before the OWGR will consider awarding points for their events? Will the LIV guys be willing to lose their standing/qualification for majors next season??

[Tim_Cronin]

The one-year proof, so to speak, is the standard procedure. Of course, with the tours LIV is plucking players from on the board that controls the rankings, it might as well be a millennium.

[Peter Pallotta]

The one-year proof, so to speak, is the standard procedure. Of course, with the tours LIV is plucking players from on the board that controls the rankings, it might as well be a millennium.

And to add to the sense of unreality / artificiality of this whole house of cards, wasn't it super-agent Mark McCormack who started the 'unofficial' world rankings in the 60s, mostly to market and promote and make more money for the Big Three stars he represented, ie Jack, Arnie and Gary? If memory serves he maintained those rankings until the mid 80s, when somehow, remarkably, they soon afterwards became the 'official world rankings'! I was going to say, "You can't make this stuff up" -- but actually, you obviously *can*  

[Tim_Cronin]

Mark started the ranking as a feature of his annual series, "The World of Professional Golf." The first year was 1968, and he had Nicklaus, Player, Casper, Palmer and Charles as the top 5. The "official" ranking started in 1986, the R&A and McCormack coming up with a formula. It was originally sponsored by Sony, a sponsorship I'm sure McCormack helped arrange. The PGA Tour got onboard in 1997.


During COVID, some tournaments awarded ranking points even though they were part of tours that hadn't passed the one-year proof, such as the Forme Tour. That could be an argument for LIV Golf to get instant status.