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Tim Gallant

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Changes at ANGC
« on: April 06, 2022, 11:38:20 AM »
A good article from Andy outlining the changes to 11 at AN. I also heard Tiger mention some subtle changes to the green at 13 and how they are basically aiming to get more pin positions.


https://thefriedegg.com/masters-hole-11-augusta-national/

« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 12:16:14 PM by Tim Gallant »

Adam G

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 11:46:04 AM »
Yeah not sure I love what they did to 11. I was so hopeful when I saw the fairway widening but the work leaves a lot to be desired and the changes near the green aren't great.
The other big change is they rounded off the lip on the front of 3 green. The chip from short is now extremely difficult especially to the Sunday pin.
In the comments of the Quadrilateral Geoff Shackelford said Beau Welling oversaw most of the work with input from Fazio. I had not heard that before.

David Jones

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 04:37:19 PM »
Some great stuff from Andy and Geoff this week. Geoff's disdain for the new catch basin in the trees on 11 was pretty impressive -

'A giant drain cap sits in the fairway and figures to draw a few balls. This easily could have been placed another 10-12 yards farther down and in the rough. It’s fairly blatant architectural malpractice, particularly given the fairway cut and focus on this hole in, I don’t know, the entire world of golf. But players may use it to take a drop and gain an advantage. Oh how the Lords won’t like that, either.'

Fred Ridley's press conference had a few nuggets in it.

'We're always looking at how we can improve the golf course. Bobby Jones said many times he wanted to create an inland links course. What I think he meant by that is that he wanted to have a firm and fast golf course.

This year one of the things is several of the fairways have been widened, there's less second cut. My thinking on that is a shot that's offline may run a bit further and may run into an area where a player might not want to be.

We are really trying to introduce the risk reward element with some of the changes we made.'

He went on to say that he didn't think the interventions that the USGA and R&A were looking at on the ball would be enough (or come soon enough) to stop them having to lengthen 13 even though he was loathe to do so given the amount of history that hole has. That was disappointing...






Kalen Braley

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2022, 05:07:20 PM »
13 was gonna happen either way.  No way they spent that much money on a tiny chunk of land just so they could put a new bend in the service road. ;)

P.S.  I could see them putting in an "exclusive access" grand stand area near the new back tee to both see tee balls on 13 and potentially fairly up close action on 12 green.  To my knowledge, fans have never been allowed back in there at least in the modern era of the event.

jeffwarne

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 08:16:22 AM »
13 was gonna happen either way.  No way they spent that much money on a tiny chunk of land just so they could put a new bend in the service road. ;)

P.S.  I could see them putting in an "exclusive access" grand stand area near the new back tee to both see tee balls on 13 and potentially fairly up close action on 12 green.  To my knowledge, fans have never been allowed back in there at least in the modern era of the event.


13 was about controlling their borders, giving them more room for infrastructure, and perhaps as Kalen hints, exclusive access to some.
That said, Ridley all but stated that ANGC would not wait for the USGA to study more and see/recognize what has been in front of their face for 20 + years.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Kalen Braley

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 03:55:59 PM »
13 was gonna happen either way.  No way they spent that much money on a tiny chunk of land just so they could put a new bend in the service road. ;)

P.S.  I could see them putting in an "exclusive access" grand stand area near the new back tee to both see tee balls on 13 and potentially fairly up close action on 12 green.  To my knowledge, fans have never been allowed back in there at least in the modern era of the event.



13 was about controlling their borders, giving them more room for infrastructure, and perhaps as Kalen hints, exclusive access to some.
That said, Ridley all but stated that ANGC would not wait for the USGA to study more and see/recognize what has been in front of their face for 20 + years.


Jeff,

I was watching today after one guy stuck it close on 12 and he was trying to get the crowd pumped up.  Then I thought the only thing missing is a stadium crowd raining down beers and popcorn.  I mean if the Green Jackets are fine with guys throwing lawn darts, frisbees, and soccer balls at that green why not that?  ;D

jeffwarne

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2022, 08:35:17 PM »
Some great stuff from Andy and Geoff this week. Geoff's disdain for the new catch basin in the trees on 11 was pretty impressive -

'A giant drain cap sits in the fairway and figures to draw a few balls. This easily could have been placed another 10-12 yards farther down and in the rough. It’s fairly blatant architectural malpractice, particularly given the fairway cut and focus on this hole in, I don’t know, the entire world of golf. But players may use it to take a drop and gain an advantage. Oh how the Lords won’t like that, either.'





I've been on/by that hole every day this week.
On the third time around, after being initially quite pleased with the changes, I made a special note to take a good look at the "giant drain cap" that Geoff and Andy address.
It's a complete non event(it's not a collection area) and I'd be willing to bet there've been no drops from it this Masters.
It's a drain cap about one a a half to two feet across, just like you'd see in many places.
Pretty far down the list of complaints in the golf world, especially when the  rest of the changes to the hole are largely net positives.


My main peeve with the newly planted trees at ANGC, other than the obvious ones we've discussed over the years(loss of strategy, less opportunity for creative shots)....
are the visibiity issues they create for spectators, especially when one is seated in bleachers where newer, younger overly limbed trees block sightines of play and allow one to see only  the ball land,rather than the player executing the shot-15 right-under the scoreboard, 10 right of green, 17 green where trees/limbs down left side obscure any swings on approach and trees/limbs are out of tee shot range, 6 greenside right and left up near tee-both places not bleachers but heavy spectator areas.)
And 18 tee shot is way out of control with way too many bushes and thick trees surrounding a bowling alley that was never widened when the tee was moved 50 yards back.Both from a spectator bottleneck/visibility standpoint and a playability standpoint.


Losing most of the trees on the right of 11(which were planted 12-20 or so years ago) was a very good thing, and the three that remain keep a player honest and create/demand some interesting shotmaking for those who stray right off the tee.
Right of 9 fwy is now a return to the old days with fairway going right to pine straw,with creative shotmaking options from the pine straw but mostly limbed up trees.
Next project is to lose a few limbs/new trees on 7.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 08:41:57 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ken Moum

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2022, 09:33:20 PM »
Jeff's comments re. the bowling alley on 18 sure were prescient.


Both Smith and Scheffler got caught.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Adam G

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Re: Changes at ANGC
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2022, 10:32:09 PM »
But its not just the bowling alley -- it was also that the wind was hard left to right and almost everyone on tour prefers fade with their driver. I bet that should would have been difficult even if it wasn't a bowling alley today.


I'm beginning to think that having holes that require a draw driver under pressure with a long club at the end of the round is among the best ways to challenge the pros. Look out for 13 and 14 at TCC in a few months.

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