[Thomas Dai]

Is TV pro golf entertainment?
If so are TV viewers being short-changed?

Does lower scoring, ie less shots played, with many shots being bland and mundane mean less entertainment and would higher scoring, ie more shots played, with more varied types of shot provide greater entertainment and provide greater viewing value?
Atb

[Cal Carlisle]

Thomas,


I was watching the WGC matchplay yesterday and I have to say, the dormant bermudagrass made for some very interesting situations. IMO it was much more entertaining than watching players hit balls out of deep rough, especially in the South. What wasn't interesting was the grandstands right on top of the greens to where players end up using them as backstops for overcooked shots.


I actually enjoy watching the matchplay event and would really get a kick out of perhaps a mixed tournament that combines the PGA and LPGA. If they send players to the Olympics, why not do something like this a week during the summer? I'd watch that.

[Peter Pallotta]

TD
I've referenced this before, just fyi:
the average PGA Tour stop (eg Wells Fargo, RBC Heritage, Valero Texas Open) broadcast nationally on a Sunday afternoon on CBS averages 2.5 million viewers.
Tiger Woods' amazing and dramatic major win at Augusta in the 2019 Masters, live on on a Sunday afternoon on CBS, drew about 10.5 million viewers -- just about as high a number as televised golf ever gets.
The average NFL football game, broadcast on a Sunday afternoon on CBS, averages 17.5 million viewers.
Which is to say: I don't know how entertaining golf is or could be, but relatively speaking not many people at all are tuning in to find out.
(PS: last year's Super Bowl, granted that sport's only/sole 'major', drew 112 million viewers.)

[Ken Moum]

I can only speak for myself,  but TV golf only  gets my attention when the players are being asked questions that make their brains overheat.


That, to me, comes down to majors and the Ryder Cup.


Almost everything else reminds me of the Pro Bowl.

[Jeff Schley]

TD
I've referenced this before, just fyi:
the average PGA Tour stop (eg Wells Fargo, RBC Heritage, Valero Texas Open) broadcast nationally on a Sunday afternoon on CBS averages 2.5 million viewers.
Tiger Woods' amazing and dramatic major win at Augusta in the 2019 Masters, live on on a Sunday afternoon on CBS, drew about 10.5 million viewers -- just about as high a number as televised golf ever gets.
The average NFL football game, broadcast on a Sunday afternoon on CBS, averages 17.5 million viewers.
Which is to say: I don't know how entertaining golf is or could be, but relatively speaking not many people at all are tuning in to find out.
(PS: last year's Super Bowl, granted that sport's only/sole 'major', drew 112 million viewers.)

Peter interesting and insightful, it shows the disparity of the NFL vs. golf.  I would think baseball is also low as well. However, I do think that watching golf today is light years better than it was 20 years ago with all the improved technology (shot tracer the best innovation IMO, shot link data, etc.). I actually prefer staying home and watching the broadcasts to attending in person. I do really enjoy watching the players hit range balls which is up close relatively speaking. The exception is going to the tournaments here in the Middle East where there are almost no fans or very few and you can get right up close and personal for watching the shots. That is great.

[Thomas Dai]

Jeff,
Shot-tracer is nice. 'Lie-cam', the still-photo close-up of the balls lie, especially if it's an iffy lie, is good too.
I reckon it would be more interesting, more entertaining, to watch (with shot tracer) guys and gals hitting approach shots with long and mid irons instead of a seeming constant steam of short irons and wedges. Ought to provide more interesting recovery shots too as more greens will likely be missed with approaches. More shots, more entertainment?
atb

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff,
Shot-tracer is nice. 'Lie-cam', the still-photo close-up of the balls lie, especially if it's an iffy lie, is good too.
I reckon it would be more interesting, more entertaining, to watch (with shot tracer) guys and gals hitting approach shots with long and mid irons instead of a seeming constant steam of short irons and wedges. Ought to provide more interesting recovery shots too as more greens will likely be missed with approaches. More shots, more entertainment?
atb

Hi Thomas yes I don't like coverage of putts which seem to dominate and understand why. I wished they used more graphics on the greens to show undulations. Showing the slopes and ground level cameras really gives us a good appreciation for the slopes in a green. The putt line put on the screen in some form I think is good and can be enhanced.

I'd also like to see more data (not sure if I'm alone, but I doubt it), steps walked, calories expended, heart rate which I believe they experimented with a while back. Viewers love data and the shot link was the start with shot tracer a big improvement. I also like the ground level shot tracer overlay from all players in the group so you can see the height and shape difference for example.

[Dave Doxey]

I find TV golf entertaining, although I can’t watch it live due to all of the commercials.  I record it on a DVR and start watching an hour or two after it starts.  By skipping commercials, sponsor interviews, and non play segments, I find it easy to watch. 


DVR lets me rewatch, and slow down, interesting shots.  Graphics and statistics have improved over time and added to the telecasts.  Recent tracking of betting odds raises questions on the effect of gambling on the game.


Starting about 90 minutes late, with skipping, I find that I’m all caught up by the telecast end.  Without a DVR, I would never watch televised golf.

[Lou_Duran]

A sure way of killing high-level tournament golf on television is to promote courses and course set-ups which would appeal to the couple hundred anachronists (?) on this site.  There is a reason why The Masters is the most watched tournament by far in the U.S. (followed by the PGA) and the impact of big-name players in the field (e.g. Tiger Woods, Lefty).



As to comparing golf to other sports, raw numbers are not nearly as "interesting" as understanding the impact of the demographics reflected in the advertising.  Some 30+ years ago a prominent, tenured social psychologist I did some work for in undergraduate school got a short letter-to-the-editor published in The Wall Street Journal.  He posited that advertising should not be primarily measured by the number of eyeballs it reached or the recollection of viewers, but by the effect it had on the target audience, specifically, actually "pulling the product from the shelve" (i.e. completing a purchase).  Tim Brock, whether being ignorant (doubtful) or seeking an entry into commerce, hardly stumbled into a universal truth (my thought was "no-shit Sherlock").  Me and my colleagues at just one consumer products company had been following closely the effect of advertising and merchandising on sales for many years; I am sure that companies with small and large A & M budgets routinely attempted to measure the effectiveness of their promotional spending.   


Though I am not in the enviable position as some here to be influenced by a number of television advertisements aimed at golfers, I can't help noticing that while important football games are bombarded with multi-million $ salty snacks and beer commercials, private jets, Rolex, and hyper-pricey resorts and real estate don't find space alongside.  Not that they don't make mistakes, but TV execs and corporate buyers of advertising know their customers quite well.


As a viewer of golf on TV with many similar "likes" as people on this site- I thoroughly enjoy the fourth most watched Major, "The Open"- I'd rather that the PGA Tour paid appearance money to draw more top players than obsessively focusing on keeping scores near par.  Perhaps the well-fed Tour bureaucracy would not have some of the discontent it has from both ends of the money list if it adopted such a practice.  But I digress!   

[Peter Pallotta]

Jeff - an apples to oranges comparison to be sure; but if there are indeed 25 million golfers in America, attracting on average only 10% of them doesn't speak all that well for televised golf either.

Lou - yes, the rather obvious point that despite its relatively low 'numbers' golf continues to be televised because it attracts the older and wealthier demographic that advertisers of luxury goods want to target I thought could be left implicit

[Steve Lang]

  per https://www.statista.com/statistics/244272/golf-tournaments-viewership-us/


there were 4.1 to 9.5 million tv viewers for the 4 Majors in 2021, which doesn't count all the internet media feeds...


... with all the Aim Point and slow play stuff driving endless cutting away to someone actually moving, I wonder if it isn't almost breeding ADD in folks.


... at times, its kinda like watching paint dry, so other than The Masters, I'll usually watch the highlights and reruns, not unlike what I used to do checking out the half-time show during Monday night football. 


... kinda nice not being in the marketing demographic
 

[Thomas Dai]

Just wondering if viewer numbers aren’t a reflection of what might also be on ‘the box’, kinda like if TV golf is the least bad option to watch at any one time given what’s simultaneously on the other channels?
Also what would improve the viewer experience? A couple of techie things have been mentioned but it seems like the element of difficulty, of interest, of entertainment, is less when so much coverage is short irons and putts. I’m thinking of situations like Seve working shots or Gil Morgan’s famous long iron at Pebble Beach as seen with the now benefit of shot-tracer or a caddy/player mic to hear the pre-shot discussion (less so maybe the after-shot language!). More of that kind of thing maybe even by changing some other aspects of the game, like a more spinny ball, a ball that would curve more, might provide additional viewing interest? “These guys are good” is a slogan let’s really see them show off all sorts of various aspects of their tremendous talent.
Atb

[mike_beene]

Comparing to the ratings of the NFL is not as important as comparing to other sports ,especially individual.I assume in the US golf generally beats tennis ( which had little coverage outside the 4 majors). Auto racing, horse racing, the Tour de France I assume don’t come close.

[Kyle Harris]

It is an exhibition. Of what? That is prone to change. There's always been some element of power v. craft, however.

[Ronald Montesano]

What's missing is the gladiatorial element.

We the Treehouse aren't interested in changing golf; we are interested in changing golf viewers and golfers. We want them to be more like us. Trouble is, if they were, this site would have 200X the number of participants, and you could kiss your access to top-shelf clubs good-bye.

The countless attempts at shaming and cancelling the Waste Management touch on what separates that event from the other, non-majors and non-International Team competitions. There is a bit of violence on the course (Holes 15-17) and a bit of audience participation that would make Bertolt Brecht wince with pride.

The hook of the four majors is ... roll them drums ... they are MAJOR titles that define careers.

The hook of The Players Championship is that it was left at the altar, but it has one whale of a golf course that you and I can play for $500.

I propose that the WGC Match Play could ascend to near-Players status if they could find a way to reroute the course and have it finish along the water. Oh, and change the format to tweak a few pacemakers.

Golf courses all differ; why don't golf tournaments? It's 72 medal holes and see you next week. Put your forking heads together, tournament directors, and come up with unique formats.

Hejj Yes, Tour Golf is entertainment. It sure ain't real life drama. It's another reality show.

[David Kelly]

Comparing to the ratings of the NFL is not as important as comparing to other sports ,especially individual.I assume in the US golf generally beats tennis ( which had little coverage outside the 4 majors). Auto racing, horse racing, the Tour de France I assume don’t come close.

The 3 US golf majors' TV ratings are smaller than horse racings' Triple Crown races recently but they have been close the last 20 years or so.  However, the 3 TC races generally average higher ratings than the 3 majors and as recently as 2014, the Belmont Stakes had 20.6M viewers, which is more than the most watched golf tournament ever, the 20.3m that watched Woods' 1997 Masters.


2021
Kentucky Derby viewers 14.37m
Preakness 8.6m
Belmont Stakes 4.5m


PGA Championship 6.58m
Masters 9.45m
US Open 5.67m


The 2021 Daytona 500 had 4.83m which is a a freefall from the 90s-00s when it was getting close to 20M a year.  As late as 2013 it had 16.65m.  The 2021 Indianapolis 500 had 5.58m viewers.  Tennis ratings have gone through the floor.


But the beauty of golf is that it is a participation sport so somebody like me can love golf without having any interest in watching the PGA Tour.

[Jeff Schley]

Comparing to the ratings of the NFL is not as important as comparing to other sports ,especially individual.I assume in the US golf generally beats tennis ( which had little coverage outside the 4 majors). Auto racing, horse racing, the Tour de France I assume don’t come close.

The 3 US golf majors' TV ratings are smaller than horse racings' Triple Crown races recently but they have been close the last 20 years or so.  However, the 3 TC races generally average higher ratings than the 3 majors and as recently as 2014, the Belmont Stakes had 20.6M viewers, which is more than the most watched golf tournament ever, the 20.3m that watched Woods' 1997 Masters.


2021
Kentucky Derby viewers 14.37m
Preakness 8.6m
Belmont Stakes 4.5m


PGA Championship 6.58m
Masters 9.45m
US Open 5.67m


The 2021 Daytona 500 had 4.83m which is a a freefall from the 90s-00s when it was getting close to 20M a year.  As late as 2013 it had 16.65m.  The 2021 Indianapolis 500 had 5.58m viewers.  Tennis ratings have gone through the floor.


But the beauty of golf is that it is a participation sport so somebody like me can love golf without having any interest in watching the PGA Tour.

The PGA was probably because of Phil I assume this year. Otherwise I would think the US Open would draw more viewers. I'm somewhat surprised horse racing is so high. Oh well, shows how much I know.

[Kalen Braley]

Not sure I understand the premise of this thread.  Aren't all sports.... on TV (or otherwise)...considered "Entertainment"?  Just like nearly everything else on the tube?

I mean if its not interesting or worth watching, then keep the remote handy I guess...

[JESII]

The premise was clearly, if TV golf is entertainment, why not make the challenge greater so the viewer can see more golf?


I disagree, as the most entertainment is great scoring on good to great courses in a tight contest where the tv people are able to show interesting shots and angles.

[Kalen Braley]

The premise was clearly, if TV golf is entertainment, why not make the challenge greater so the viewer can see more golf?


I disagree, as the most entertainment is great scoring on good to great courses in a tight contest where the tv people are able to show interesting shots and angles.

I understood the main question, its the underling premise of....the guy who takes the least amount of strokes is always gonna be the winner and presumably the one everyone most wants to see.   But Tigers ratings I suspect were just as good, regardless of how many strokes he took to win.

So if the quibble/question is whether the winner should shoot 260 vs 280, then it turns into a USGA-like quandry where trying to achieve a target amount of winning strokes well in advance is undoubtedly an exercise in futility.

[mike_beene]

But I know nothing about horse racing but usually watch. It only takes a few minutes. There are preshot routines longer than the Kentucky Derby.

[Jeff Schley]

The premise was clearly, if TV golf is entertainment, why not make the challenge greater so the viewer can see more golf?


I disagree, as the most entertainment is great scoring on good to great courses in a tight contest where the tv people are able to show interesting shots and angles.

Or maybe format is a delineator for entertainment. Is 72 hole stroke play the best?  You have a variety of others if we are talking entertainment.

• Stableford
• Match play
• Team alternate shot foursomes
• Fourball
• Then we have rare things like televised scramble
• Mixed gender events maybe etc. for novelty

The formats aren't varied much at all with a couple match play and a stableford throughout the year.

[Jim Sherma]

Golf stays on television because it is almost guaranteed to be on in nearly every clubhouse bar every weekend. The demographics of that audience is worth paying the cost for the advertisers. There is a lot of purchasing power (both personal and business) walking through golf facilities and having interest in golf that very few single advertising opportunities can match. There is a reason that the golf channel is on in many business hotel tv room-packages while the NBA, NFL and NHL channels are not.

[Brad Lawrence]

I've been playing for 36 years, since age 10.  The game has deteriorated in my opinion in both playing and viewing.  To be fair, coverage has gotten better.  I remember only getting the back nine on Sunday afternoons.  The Golf Channel has been a great addition.  Where the game has gone downhill is how equipment advances and course setup have combined to leave us a game less interesting to play and watch.  I spent ten years as a club pro, meaning I got more opinions thrown at me than I wanted or needed.  The masses want lush green conditions.   What a course looks like is more important than how it plays.  The masses want sterile and boring conditions.  They complain if a poorly struck 8 iron lands in the back half of a green and bounds over.  That's unfair!  They don't want to be bothered with having to play shots or manufacture a score.  Holes that I think are quirky and fun are unfair and stupid. Courses I find boring and sterile are great.  Comments like all blind shots are stupid have become common place.  If I hear someone say a course is right out in front of you, I'm sure to hate it.  We've built a game where shaping shots left and right and up and down is of little value.  Hit driver far, find it, get yardage, proceed.  We might as well settle the score on the range using a track man.  I've gone from a 7 day a week player to a twice a month player.   I watch the majors and Ryder Cup and little else, maybe the back nine on Sunday if northing else is on. 

[Thomas Dai]

I've been playing for 36 years, since age 10.  The game has deteriorated in my opinion in both playing and viewing.  To be fair, coverage has gotten better.  I remember only getting the back nine on Sunday afternoons.  The Golf Channel has been a great addition.  Where the game has gone downhill is how equipment advances and course setup have combined to leave us a game less interesting to play and watch.  I spent ten years as a club pro, meaning I got more opinions thrown at me than I wanted or needed.  The masses want lush green conditions.   What a course looks like is more important than how it plays.  The masses want sterile and boring conditions.  They complain if a poorly struck 8 iron lands in the back half of a green and bounds over.  That's unfair!  They don't want to be bothered with having to play shots or manufacture a score.  Holes that I think are quirky and fun are unfair and stupid. Courses I find boring and sterile are great.  Comments like all blind shots are stupid have become common place.  If I hear someone say a course is right out in front of you, I'm sure to hate it.  We've built a game where shaping shots left and right and up and down is of little value.  Hit driver far, find it, get yardage, proceed.  We might as well settle the score on the range using a track man.  I've gone from a 7 day a week player to a twice a month player.   I watch the majors and Ryder Cup and little else, maybe the back nine on Sunday if northing else is on.

Well said Brad. Nicely sums up a whole bunch of things about golf in the recent and present eras and not just about TV golf either.
Atb

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