Fear or Fun..?..: What do you want to feel on your next shot?

[Ian Mackenzie]

Was watching Golf Channel's Player's coverage last night (with my wife) and Paul Azinger was recounting a time he spent 2 hours on a plane with Pete Dye.


He said how Mr. Dye told him that he built courses so that the player would "fear their next shot".


My wife recoiled in horror..."Why would someone want to do that?!", she asked.


Got me thinking...we know golf is not supposed to be "fair" per se. But, do want to "fear" yur next shot?


I get that GCA's may want to create uncertainty or introduce "gray" thoughts as opposed to binary black or white decisions.
But, being fearful is hardly a way to enjoy the game.


May be why I have never really enjoyed Mr. Dye's courses as much as the ODGs.


Thoughts?

[Ira Fishman]

I have played only a couple of Mr. Dye's courses. I really liked and appreciated the River course at Kohler, but it was 30 years ago when fear and fun were not as mutually exclusive as they are now. The tee shot at 13 for example was full of fear but it was a helluva a lot of fun to try to pull it off.


Ira

[Jeff_Brauer]

For most courses fun, with perhaps 1 or 2 fearful shots - at most - per course or per nine.


I recall reading (or hearing Pete or Alice say) where the island green at 17 was meant to inspire fear on the first tee and all through the round, i.e., perhaps influencing your strategy knowing you might make a big number there.


Ira makes a good point.  Perhaps there is an element of fear in fun shots.  Maybe the difference is punishment levels?  As in a Cape Hole with water on the right is a fun challenge, but full of fear for most, whereas a Cape hole with a long strip sand bunker on the left is a challenge, but with lesser consequences for most, mostly fun.


And there would be the old Trevino idea of fear, playing that water cape hole with only one ball left, or making a $50 bet with not money in your pocket.

[Lou_Duran]

Some 20 years ago while playing Turtle Point in Kiawah, our group was surprised when Mr. Dye walked up to our carts toward the end of the round, rummaged through my clubs (Hogan Apex irons), and followed us in the rest of the way.  Over the next day or so I ran into him a couple more times (he waggled my irons a bit, saying that he had a set at home just like them) and was always friendly.


We were on the island to play The Ocean Course, which, with a stiff, cold wind, was as dyabolical as they come.  He asked me how it went and the only thing I could think to say was that it was relentless- not even the safer shots seemed to lower the tension.  I recall a slight smile followed by a statement that he always left one side of the hole open as an option for the less aggressive.  My response was that in my two rounds on his course, that I somehow missed those safety areas.  As I recall, his retort was that I must not have looked carefully AND that it was not his intent to make these obvious.


I don't know if he thought in terms of Behr's lines of charm and instinct, but in the way Mr. Dye spoke, he certainly had in mind that the game he envisioned required an active imagination in which fear played a big part.  I've played 20+ Dye courses, and though only a handful I consider great, all are engaging and fun in their own way.  I do believe that adversity plays a big role in my golf game; some of my most satisfying rounds are those where I've started poorly, overcame some difficult moments, and finished strong.  Mr. Dye never made it easy, but his courses are typically compelling.     

[Mike Hendren]

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[Peter Pallotta]

Has the goal (and/or we as golfers) changed all that much in the almost hundred years since B Darwin was writing about rabbits and tigers?

To me, no one has ever described it (or golfers) any better, i.e. most of us are rabbits, but we don't want architects to treat us like rabbits (or worse, make it obvious that they're treating us that way).

We want to be able to feel like tigers -- and we want architects to help us feel that way by creating courses where shot after shot seems to be just beyond our capabilities, and where shot after shot appears to be fraught with challenge and danger, asking us to summon up the courage to trust ourselves and risk it all in pursuit of glory.

In others, we want thrills. And yes, I think thrills entail a certain kind of fear (let's call it "golf course fear", so as to not confuse it with something important and real).

The talent and great trick of the gca -- as Darwin says -- is to create that feeling of risk-fear-thrill that comes with living like a tiger while at the same time making all those apparent risks and challenges actually achievable, for the rabbit!

[Rick Lane]

Good thread.   The word fear is a strong one.   Apprehension?   Doubt? Challenge?   Those are all cousins of fear. 


I do fear a 200 yard carry over water.   But I also do love the challenge of a 200 yard carry over a cross bunker 30 yards from the green on a par five second shot, or a drivable par 4, where there is glory to be had but the penalty is a 30 yard bunker shot, not a drop from a penalty area.   On a golf course I would relish the latter in droves, not so much the former.  The recent spate of Match Play courses popping up seem to me to have a lot of the latter, which is great fun.  So I guess the difference between fear and challenge is the level of penalty involved?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Has the goal (and/or we as golfers) changed all that much in the almost hundred years since B Darwin was writing about rabbits and tigers?

To me, no one has ever described it (or golfers) any better, i.e. most of us are rabbits, but we don't want architects to treat us like rabbits (or worse, make it obvious that they're treating us that way).

We want to be able to feel like tigers -- and we want architects to help us feel that way by creating courses where shot after shot seems to be just beyond our capabilities, and where shot after shot appear to be fraught with challenge and danger, asking us to summon up the courage to trust ourselves and risk it all in pursuit of glory.

In others, we want thrills. And yes, I think thrills entail a certain kind of fear (let's call it "golf course fear", so as to not confuse it with something important and real).

The talent and great trick of the gca -- as Darwin says -- is to create that feeling of risk-fear-thrill that comes with living like a tiger while at the same time making all those apparent risks and challenges actually achievable, for the rabbit!

Good post, Peter.

[Jim Lipstate]

Interesting question. I have been fortunate to play TPC Sawgrass on eight occasions in the Liberty Mutual National  Four man scramble finals. Seven times I put the ball in the water on 17. Playing what was probably my last time at that course it was up to me to hit the green for the foursome. The night before there was a charity benefit and the speaker was a former PGA tour professional who gave a talk about embracing fear and nervousness and using it to your advantage. With his words still resonating in my head I hit an 8 iron clearing the water and gently landing on the island green. A few tears of happiness formed in my eyes. A shot I will always remember and treasure.


Getting back to the issue at hand a few intimidating shots on a course add spice and a chance for triumph. This is best used sparingly lest the a round of golf become a hopeless slog for the majority of recreational golfers.

[Jeff Schley]

I have been fortunate to play TPC Sawgrass on eight occasions in the Liberty Mutual National  Four man scramble finals.

Sorry to digress, but there is a national four man scramble tournament at TPC Sawgrass every year?  This has to be a scratch event as I can only imagine the sandbagging to reach a national level flighted.

[Michael Moore]

Pete Dye is now an Old Dead Guy.

[Thomas Dai]

Isn’t there a personality type that finds fear to be fun? Golfers too?
Atb

[Jim Lipstate]

The Liberty Mutual Four man scramble has been a yearly event raising money for charity. Local tournaments are played around the country with winners qualifying to play the final tournament. TPC Sawgrass, Pinehurst and Kiawah have all played as hosts in the past ten years.


Total team handicap has to be 43 or greater with only one player having a handicap lower than 8. Play is from the professional tees with each player contributing at least three tee shots. A forecaddie and scorer accompany each team to keep everything on the level. It is great fun and a worthy cause. For me it has been a wonderful opportunity to play top notch courses with my group. Sadly with age it has become too difficult to be competitive with the younger players. Last trip at Sawgrass found us needing to use the drive of our oldest player who was pushing seventy and drove the ball around 200 yards most of the time. Playing the 4th hole his drive hit a sprinkler head and rocketed out 280 yards down the fairway. We were happy to take his contribution.

[Tim Leahy]

Fear and fun can go hand in hand or there wouldn't be long lines for roller-coasters. 
Also remember the TPS Sawgrass was designed to test the best players in the world and not as an everyday country club for members only.

[A.G._Crockett]

Fear is probably a very poor choice of words. If you are truly afraid of a golf shot, then nothing very bad has happened to you in real life.