No Slope? No Course Rating?

[Michael Whitaker]

In another thread it was mentioned that you can’t post scores from Sand Hills, Ballyneal or Augusta National because they aren’t members of the GHIN system… which means they don’t have Slope or Course ratings.


Congaree used to be one, but they had a change of heart and finally joined the rest of the golf community.


Any other US courses out there without a Slope/Course rating?

[Michael Whitaker]

Ohoopee

[Steve Lang]

  Hey Mike,


Mike Nuzzo's Wolf Point Club didn't have a slope or rating... it is a match play course, just listing par and hole handicap on the scorecard. 


Regards, and
Ms Sheila says hi, WP was last course she's walked!

[Mike_Young]

We have remained a member of the state golf association just to maintain member handicaps but are close to dropping it.  No reason for it now..

[Jim_Coleman]

  Other than pomposity, why would a club opt out?

[Mark Kiely]

Haven't played it myself, but I think I've heard Shadow Creek falls in this category.

[Michael Whitaker]

We have remained a member of the state golf association just to maintain member handicaps but are close to dropping it.  No reason for it now..

Mike,
Why “no reason”? You no longer have members?


Also, don’t you ever host a competition that requires handicaps?

[JohnVDB]

  Other than pomposity, why would a club opt out?

At Ballyneal, the players just decide where they want to tee off on each hole so there is no standard tees to rate the course from.


Augusta just doesn’t want to be rated.  I’m pretty sure it has been informally rated as the numbers are very well known there.

[Mike_Young]

We have remained a member of the state golf association just to maintain member handicaps but are close to dropping it.  No reason for it now..

Mike,
Why “no reason”? You no longer have members?


Also, don’t you ever host a competition that requires handicaps?

Let's see if public becomes supported and has voice in Ga....if it does then will remain...

[James Bennett]

They aren't in the USA, but Barnbougle Links and Lost Farm (Tasmania) don't have a rating or slope to my knowledge.
No scores submitted from there.

[JohnVDB]

Know that the World Handicapping System is off and running, most courses around the world have been rated.
One of the funny things before the WHS was that in England, the ladies golf union had done course/slope ratings for the courses for women, but the men's union hadn't.  This meant that if a man and wife from the US came to play, the wife could post her score, but the husband couldn't.

[Niall C]

John


No offence but I think the men's union had it right. Who wants to be stuck behind someone "scoring" on a non-comp day. That has probably been the norm for the US but certainly didn't use to be in the UK but not sure now. Frankly, I tip my hat to those clubs that are eschewing the course rating/slope stuff.


Niall

[Tim Martin]

In another thread it was mentioned that you can’t post scores from Sand Hills, Ballyneal or Augusta National because they aren’t members of the GHIN system… which means they don’t have Slope or Course ratings.


Congaree used to be one, but they had a change of heart and finally joined the rest of the golf community.


Any other US courses out there without a Slope/Course rating?

The above referenced courses are not intended for every day use. That said if you only make a few trips a year as a member and that is the extent of your play you wouldn’t be able to establish a handicap. An unlikely scenario but possible.

[Michael Whitaker]

In another thread it was mentioned that you can’t post scores from Sand Hills, Ballyneal or Augusta National because they aren’t members of the GHIN system… which means they don’t have Slope or Course ratings.


Congaree used to be one, but they had a change of heart and finally joined the rest of the golf community.


Any other US courses out there without a Slope/Course rating?

The above referenced courses are not intended for every day use. That said if you only make a few trips a year as a member and that is the extent of your play you wouldn’t be able to establish a handicap. An unlikely scenario but possible.

Tim - the other problem with not having a Slope/Course rating is that you could not host any kind of a handicapped competition.

[Tim Martin]

Of all the courses referenced in this thread without a slope/course rating Sand Hills was the only scorecard without hole handicaps. Is this correct for Sand Hills and if so what would be the reason?

[Brian Finn]

Of all the courses referenced in this thread without a slope/course rating Sand Hills was the only scorecard without hole handicaps. Is this correct for Sand Hills and if so what would be the reason?

There are basically 5 different winds there (N/S/E/W/calm), all of which occur pretty regularly.  The holes would be handicapped very differently depending on the wind direction.  I believe members do have handicaps by wind, but I could be wrong there.  I am sure someone with more experience can chime in.

[Jim_Coleman]

   I would think most clubs would deal with different prevailing winds by changing tee placements - downwind back, into the wind forward.  I continue to believe this is about pomposity. Sort of like the people who brag they don’t watch television.

[Mark Kiely]

Of all the courses referenced in this thread without a slope/course rating Sand Hills was the only scorecard without hole handicaps. Is this correct for Sand Hills and if so what would be the reason?

There are basically 5 different winds there (N/S/E/W/calm), all of which occur pretty regularly.  The holes would be handicapped very differently depending on the wind direction.  I believe members do have handicaps by wind, but I could be wrong there.  I am sure someone with more experience can chime in.

Related, "nearby" Landmand just announced today their scorecard will have two different hole handicaps based on that day's wind direction, southeast or northwest.


I agree that this all feels like a marketing gimmick/"Something to get people talking" more than anything else.

[Gene Greco]

Of all the courses referenced in this thread without a slope/course rating Sand Hills was the only scorecard without hole handicaps. Is this correct for Sand Hills and if so what would be the reason?

There are basically 5 different winds there (N/S/E/W/calm), all of which occur pretty regularly.  The holes would be handicapped very differently depending on the wind direction.  I believe members do have handicaps by wind, but I could be wrong there.  I am sure someone with more experience can chime in.

Indeed, there are five different winds at Sand Hills.
And they come from all directions forcefully.
And they come from all directions forcefully “pretty regularly” - like every f—king hour or two.


Matches are handicapped at the first tee before each round. Though after nine holes in many instances the hole handicaps need to be adjusted.


Best example I can give is a day I played 54.
Par 3 3rd hole is 216 yds.
Hit 8 iron in the morning, 3 iron after lunch and driver in the latter part of the afternoon - short.


The Founder is a down to earth, brilliant man and is one with whom after spending time chatting would not associate the term “pompous.”


You can’t rate the course.

[Sean_A]

In another thread it was mentioned that you can’t post scores from Sand Hills, Ballyneal or Augusta National because they aren’t members of the GHIN system… which means they don’t have Slope or Course ratings.


Congaree used to be one, but they had a change of heart and finally joined the rest of the golf community.


Any other US courses out there without a Slope/Course rating?

The above referenced courses are not intended for every day use. That said if you only make a few trips a year as a member and that is the extent of your play you wouldn’t be able to establish a handicap. An unlikely scenario but possible.

Tim - the other problem with not having a Slope/Course rating is that you could not host any kind of a handicapped competition.

Sure you can. Each person has an index which gives a ballpark figure of course handicaps anywhere. It will be out a bit, but reasonable people can come to an agreement, especially since its a handicap event the outcome doesn't really matter much. The goal is to make the game competitive. Any handicap system will have its shortcomings.

Ciao

[Jin Kim]

Tim - the other problem with not having a Slope/Course rating is that you could not host any kind of a handicapped competition.



We have lots of handicapped events at Ballyneal every year

[Jim_Coleman]

  At a course with no rating, people can just play their indices - close enough, as long as everyone is playing the same tees. But if that’s the only course one belongs to, that person will have no handicap I guess. Seems dumb to me.

[Jason Topp]

I do think the system breaks down on a course with highly variable and strong winds.  The current system, which adjusts scoring records based on the scores that are posted that day, should theoretically help. In my experience, however, the course ratings do not adjust very often.  I played in basically a dust storm on Saturday and there was no adjustment.  If that was not an adjustment day, I am not sure when one would happen.

[David_Elvins]

  Other than pomposity, why would a club opt out?

One of the reason's Barnbougle doesn't is that it allows them to strongly recommend a number of illegal local rules to enhance enjoyment and speed up play, including:


Irish drop for lost balls
Drop out of footprints in bunkers
Drop out of divots in fairways
Relief from sprinkler head on line to hole if using a putter.

[JohnVDB]

  Other than pomposity, why would a club opt out?

One of the reason's Barnbougle doesn't is that it allows them to strongly recommend a number of illegal local rules to enhance enjoyment and speed up play, including:


Irish drop for lost balls
Drop out of footprints in bunkers
Drop out of divots in fairways
Relief from sprinkler head on line to hole if using a putter.

In other words, they’re not playing golf there.