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Tim Martin

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Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« on: February 24, 2022, 08:50:24 PM »
I don’t remember reading much about Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass. Any thoughts?

Phil Burr

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2022, 10:26:18 PM »
I played the Valley one time, many years ago, and my memory chiefly goes to interminable cart path ride through housing between greens and tees.  I recall many holes dominated by parallel water hazards hugging fairways and greens very closely.  There are a couple of holes where you might get a tantalizing glimpse of the Stadium and wish you could be there instead.  It reminded me of playing Putterham Meadows in Brookline where there's a couple of spots where it feels like all you need to is part the trees a little bit to get a glimpse of the hallowed ground of The Country Club and be reminded you're on a muni.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2022, 09:49:26 AM »
It is much more playable than the Stadium, but play it first. It is a let down the other way.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2022, 10:42:13 AM »
I suppose many have my experience (dating back to the 1980's) in making that the second play (in my case, of the day, not just the trip) and of course, after it's more famous sibling, it was a letdown.


Design wise, the thing I recall the most was the greens set at fw level, and with the late day shadows, I often couldn't make out my target.  That round convinced me to start elevating my greens more (I had tended to bring them down to near land level to save fills, etc.) to make sure they were more visible, especially in wooded areas.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joe Zucker

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2022, 11:04:49 AM »
It is much more playable than the Stadium, but play it first. It is a let down the other way.


I'm not sure I agree with this.  I found the Valley course to be more difficult and I heard this was not an uncommon opinion.  Not sure if they still do, but there was a Korn Ferry event on the Valley for awhile and the scores were generally pretty high (especially for a KFT event).  I've played both courses ~3 times and I thought it was a bit easier to play away from the water on the Stadium than the Valley.  The Stadium has a lot more fun shots with risk/reward, the Valley felt like more of a typical Florida course where it only testes your execution to hit a good shot.


It's definitely worth a play to see it, but it will fall short of its neighbor.

Jim_Coleman

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 11:27:00 AM »
Phil: Comparing it to Putterham Meadows? Whoa! I realize you’re referring to it’s proximity to a great golf course. But taken out of context (attention, Phil) that’s a pretty deep cut.  Played a lot of golf there in the 60’s. 🤮 I remember Ted Furgol being the pro there - Ed’s brother. I believe Ed won a US Open and was known for having a shriveled arm.

Phil Burr

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2022, 12:01:58 AM »
Jim Coleman: I didn't take a swipe at the architectural merits of either course or the golfers that love them.  But who hasn't been seated in the front row of coach with the occasional glimpse through the curtain that separates us from the promised land of first class?  If anyone can say they didn't want to be on the front side of that curtain they are a better man than I.

Jake Marvin

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Re: Dye’s Valley Course at Sawgrass
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2022, 01:58:22 PM »
Tim, visited the Valley in between two Stadium rounds last month. My intuition is that the perceived difference in playability between the courses is basically a function of conditioning, at least in January, when the Stadium rough is not getting mown. In a world where both courses are maintained equally, they would be of a similar difficulty level, if for different reasons.


Architecturally, Dye's Valley suffers in comparison to its neighbor because at the Stadium Dye did something rare for Floridian golf in creating an intimate routing and shaping the land to create eighteen unique environments (this may be a slight stretch, but I'm not thinking particularly hard about Stadium here). PGA didn't give him the budget to do that twice, so instead he did the easy Florida thing and built up one side of most of the playing corridors and dug out the other to hold water. Basically solving the Sawgrass-is-a-swamp problem with a bulldozer and gravity. Now honestly there are some pretty good holes in a vacuum, but I got tired of the same visual eventually. It's water down the right (and generally homes down the left) through eleven, then everything flips from twelve in.


It's an interesting case study in how many variations on the theme can be produced, but eventually the same old thing gets old. I've never seen a course this likely to produce a scorecard full of pars and doubles.

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