[Ally Mcintosh]

Sounds like with children under 17 going free and a bit of community around Pinehurst, it might serve more of a purpose than I thought.


But can the kids even get on given it’s so busy?


Perhaps it would be better if it modelled itself on the children’s course at North Berwick? i.e. adults can only play if accompanied by a child. The children have rights. The adults are merely “guests”.

[John Mayhugh]

I'm not sure the drink trailer and 8somes enjoying the products makes the most kid friendly atmosphere for golf. The time you play is probably the key.

I played the Cradle before a round on #2. I see the appeal - some really fun green sites. One of my favorite rounds last year was playing the short course at Sand Valley with a good friend. We had a great match - trying ridiculous shots at times - but it was also fast. I think this kind of course loses its appeal (as most do) if you have to stand around and wait. The idea of being behind large groups that are enjoying more of a party atmosphere (music included) isn't what I look for in golf.

The good thing is that at Pinehurst there are plenty of other choices.

[Tim Martin]

It provides an alternative to the other courses at the resort and that’s a plus. Given the choice I would rather spend the same amount of time at Thistle Dhu. It’s not an apples to apples comparison as Midland’s 9 holer is 3000 yds par 36 but I am going over there before the Cradle. Finally if you are thinking about budget you can play 45 holes at Midland walking for the same price as a play on the Cradle.

[MCirba]

Not sure I'm aware of Midland.


What's the attraction given alternatives?

[Tim Martin]

Not sure I'm aware of Midland.


What's the attraction given alternatives?

Mike-Nothing more than it’s a fun little 9 holer.

[Charlie Ray]

The Cradle (and Bandon Preserve, Quicksand, Bootlegger, etc.) provide the things I enjoy in golf without the things I am indifferent to.  In playing this game for 25 years I have played four ‘competitive rounds;’ simply, it makes little difference to my enjoyment if I shoot 75 or 85; I don’t play golf to ‘win’ the game.  Secondly, for multiple reasons they feel more communal; whether it be bigger groups, closer proximity to others, or just smaller footprints, short courses feel different. Thirdly, and perhaps best of all: 75 minutes and you’re done.  Oddly, golf is attractive to me because it takes time, but I’ve never experienced great amounts of enjoyment when walking the 200ish yards from tee shot to the ball on par 4/5’s.  Short courses eliminate these 14 walks per round: great efficiency.  On my first trip to Bandon I was walking off Old MacDonald.  It was noon in December, beautiful day.  I had a redeye flight that evening, leaving me with the option of 18 on Pacific or an open slot at Preserve.  I went around Preserve twice, smiling most of the way.  Short courses are more fun for me.  Know what you value about this game, and it should become obvious if you will enjoy a round at the Cradle. 

[Peter Sayegh]

Mike C,
Chris Buie showcased MCC years ago-and the only reason I played it in the first place.

Tim is right-just a nice place to play golf. There are two holes I think you would really like.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The Cradle (and Bandon Preserve, Quicksand, Bootlegger, etc.) provide the things I enjoy in golf without the things I am indifferent to.  In playing this game for 25 years I have played four ‘competitive rounds;’ simply, it makes little difference to my enjoyment if I shoot 75 or 85; I don’t play golf to ‘win’ the game.  Secondly, for multiple reasons they feel more communal; whether it be bigger groups, closer proximity to others, or just smaller footprints, short courses feel different. Thirdly, and perhaps best of all: 75 minutes and you’re done.  Oddly, golf is attractive to me because it takes time, but I’ve never experienced great amounts of enjoyment when walking the 200ish yards from tee shot to the ball on par 4/5’s.  Short courses eliminate these 14 walks per round: great efficiency.  On my first trip to Bandon I was walking off Old MacDonald.  It was noon in December, beautiful day.  I had a redeye flight that evening, leaving me with the option of 18 on Pacific or an open slot at Preserve.  I went around Preserve twice, smiling most of the way.  Short courses are more fun for me.  Know what you value about this game, and it should become obvious if you will enjoy a round at the Cradle.

Charlie, I think we all enjoy the experience of a late evening round on a fun, short course.


But if its only purpose is to pull extra money out of well off resort visitors, I - for one - am disappointed. Short courses work better when they are aimed first and foremost at a demographic that can’t afford or isn’t good enough to play “long” courses… The well off visitors can then fill in any gaps left.


It’s a big world of course. And resorts should be applauded for offering something different. But I would much prefer to see a Cradle attached to one’s local municipal low budget town course. Attract kids and others in to the game who may not have otherwise played.

[Peter Sayegh]

"But if its only purpose is to pull extra money out of well off resort visitors, I - for one - am disappointed. Short courses work better when they are aimed first and foremost at a demographic that can’t afford or isn’t good enough to play “long” courses… The well off visitors can then fill in any gaps left.


It’s a big world of course. And resorts should be applauded for offering something different. But I would much prefer to see a Cradle attached to one’s local municipal low budget town course. Attract kids and others in to the game who may not have otherwise played." Attributed to Ally.

+1
P.S. I disagree with Amol's opinion that "locals" populate either Thistle Dhu or The Cradle. I've never had that sense when I'm there.

[MCirba]

Mike C,
Chris Buie showcased MCC years ago-and the only reason I played it in the first place.

Tim is right-just a nice place to play golf. There are two holes I think you would really like.

Thanks Tim and Peter...love nine hole courses and will check it out next time down there.

[Niall C]

I agree with Ally and Peter re low cost muni type golf. Indeed when I first read this thread I wasn't in the know about the Cradle and had to look it up, and lo and behold I find it is a good old fashioned pitch and putt, albeit a rather grand one. A lot of Town councils in the UK used to have these (along with Himalaya type putting greens) back in the first half of the 20th century. The kids courses at NB and Gullane are I suspect relics of that time.


Niall

[Charlie Ray]

Nearly 80% of US restaurants are chain/franchised.  Why? The majority of folks value convenience and consistency.  On the other hand, independent restaurants fail at nearly the same rate. 
By its nature Golf Architecture (the Golf Course) does not have to be standardized, but the great majority do follow something close to Par 72, 7000ish yards. 
The success (full tee-sheets) showcase that there is demand for ‘short’ courses; not for those: “first and foremost at a demographic that can’t afford or isn’t good enough to play “long” courses.” (Ally)  But for avid golfers.  Therefore, why do ‘short’ courses (classic pitch-n-putts, par-3s) must be relegated to ‘promote/grow the game’ status?  Architecturally, they can possess strategy and width on par with ‘bigger courses.’

[Ally Mcintosh]

Charlie,


I could counter by saying, why do you think that catering to a grow-the-game / less well off / beginner demographic should be considered some form of “relegation”, architecturally speaking?


I just question whether a 750 yard pitch ‘n’ putt for well heeled tourists at $50 a spin deserves the column inches it gets.

[Charlie Ray]

Ally,
I don’t.  I have found that some of the boldest green complexes built in the last 20 years are built on these short courses.  I guess that architects take more chances because they are less confined by what is considered great/proper to ‘the big course.’   
Others, not me, are suggesting that these be relegated to municipal pitch-n-putts.  But notice where these 750 yard beginner courses reside:  Ballyneal, PV, ANGC, Bandon, Pinehurst.  The places that know and value great design. 
Attempting to decipher who and what deserves ‘column inches’ is a folly; see Karadashian.  $50 at Pinehurst is a drink and an appetizer. 
I believe these short courses deserve to be studied because (1) they are successful (2) at 12 - 25 acres they appear to be more ‘sustainable’ in those locals that are concerned with such things.  (3) they are Golf Architecture.

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