Not the Lido Club, not RTJ's Lido, but Lido Springs

[Phil Carlucci]

Wondering if any of the Long Islanders in the group age 50+ or so have any recollection of a small par-3/P&P course called Lido Springs, which was located on a small wedge of land immediately east of RTJ's Lido from about 1963 to the early '80s.

In the past I had filed this away among courses that probably never made it off the drawing board, but after recently coming upon some more specific news articles, sure enough there it is in a 1966 aerial beside the main Lido course.


The reason I bring up a pitch-and-putt course in these parts is because several news accounts say it was designed by William Mitchell, which would indicate there was some level of architectural thought given to such a P&P layout.  It was also originally conceived as a semi-private club.  One account says, "Golf pros of the Nassau County clubs, as well as many other luminaries of the golf world, were present at the opening of the club."

It was also lit for night play.  By 1984 another aerial shows it either abandoned or in disrepair.  The property now is completely overgrown and unrecognizable.  From the street today you'd never know anything was there.

[Peter Flory]

Phil- unlike the original Lido site, this one looks like the contours are still in the ground and the greens weren't ever scraped.  That means that the lidar could easily be pulled and the course could be digitally reconstructed, especially with the aid of that 1966 aerial.  The greens look like they were pushed up about 3-4 feet above the surrounding ground based on floating the cursor over them on Google Earth and looking at the elevation.  They must have gotten the material for the greens from the ponds that are next to them. 

It's such a small acreage that it wouldn't take very long to recreate. 

In the image below, I've exaggerated the contours 3x so that the green sites are visible.  Based on doing a similar thing for Ocean Links (holes 5, 6, and 7), the actual contours of the green should be preserved, just with a little obvious noise from the ground settling. 

[Bret Lawrence]

Phil,


I had seen a few advertisements for this course when I was researching the original Lido.  They were part of Country Club Shops, specializing in golf and tennis. I didn’t realize the course was east of RTJ’s Lido.  Now I see it on the 1966 aerial.  I had asked about this course in one of the Lido threads, because it appears the 9th green of the 1917 Lido Course still existed in 1966. I thought maybe they had tied in that 9th green to the Lido Springs Par 3 course. However, your site east of the RTJ course makes a lot more sense.  I am curious if anyone remembers  this course as well?


Bret

[Phil Carlucci]

Phil,


I had seen a few advertisements for this course when I was researching the original Lido.  They were part of Country Club Shops, specializing in golf and tennis. I didn’t realize the course was east of RTJ’s Lido.  Now I see it on the 1966 aerial.  I had asked about this course in one of the Lido threads, because it appears the 9th green of the 1917 Lido Course still existed in 1966. I thought maybe they had tied in that 9th green to the Lido Springs Par 3 course. However, your site east of the RTJ course makes a lot more sense.  I am curious if anyone remembers  this course as well?


Bret

The course ran pretty steady advertising from what I've found in the Newsday archives.  Many of the ads talk about "18 challenging holes on nine greens" -- that's likely just ad-speak, but I guess it's possible they had alternate tees allowing for each hole to be played slightly differently. 

Peter, if you look though previous years on Google Earth, you can make out the greens a little bit and even some bunkers.  The 2000 aerial shows faded greens and what appears to be a large trap.

[Peter Flory]

It looks like the green closest to Lido Blvd has been scraped, but I see 6-7 still in the ground.  And the tee boxes are very prominent.  So it will take a little bit to put the puzzle of the routing together.  It helps that the greens appear to clearly face certain directions and some tee boxes as well because they are rectangular in shape. 

Here is what one of the holes looks like with surfaces painted over the existing lidar.  It is the hole that is furthest to the NW along the border of the RTJ Lido course.  Pond beyond the green.  Another pond bordering it to the right.  The bunker short left is made more difficult by the way that the green has a lip there as well. 






The green feels like a little Langford green.  Right shoulder, and then a rim around the edges with the whole thing draining off the front right.  On the right hand side of this pic, you can see a plateau in the background.  That is the remnants of the Nike missile site, from the cold war. 

[Jeff Schley]

Very nice Peter, you bring it to life so easily.

[Peter Flory]

After further analysis, all of the greens are in the ground, except for the 2nd one. 


Here is how I see the routing:  RTJ Lido is to the left, and the blank area at the bottom would be the parking lot for this course and then Lido Blvd.  The Nike missile site is in the background.  Those trenches in the ground were there before the course I believe based on older aerials. 



1st green site.  Very interesting contours in the green.  I haven't adjusted any contours in these images, they are in the ground still and were generated by the lidar download. 



7th green view from short left.  3rd green is behind it and the 4th tee box is over and to the right. 



9th green from behind and to the right.  Bunkerless greensite.  The knob in the back center of the green is interesting and the green falls off all around. 



Approximate Hole Lengths, depending upon where you measure on each tee box:
1- 78 yds
2- 96
3- 70
4- 111
5- 62
6- 103
7- 73
8- 52
9- 121

[Phil Carlucci]

Peter, that's really remarkable stuff.  I was having a really hard time visualizing how nine holes could fit on that tiny parcel, but it seems you figured it out.  I'm guessing there must have been some rather perilous walks from green to tee though.


Interestingly enough I was about to add some input that I got from a few locals, including one person who recalled that #9 was the longest hole (he guessed 120 yards) and faced Lido Blvd.

A few other items of note after posting inquiries in some local Facebook groups:

1) Several people mentioned that you can still see the light stanchions from the 12th hole of RTJ Lido.

2) The driving range was apparently on a different site, farther east and on the opposite side of Lido Blvd.  According to one person, there was no net, and righty slices could land on the boulevard.

[Peter Flory]

The walks don't look bad at all.  On 9, it looks like there must have been a little bridge where I put one, otherwise, you'd have to walk around the pond to the north. 


When I get time, I'll play the 9 and record it and post a link. 


Phil- do you have a good version of the 1966 aerial?  The only one I can see requires payment and has the watermarks all over it.

[Phil Carlucci]

For those interested, I just posted a feature on Lido Springs -- Lido Beach's other lost golf course.  What's remarkable about it is that it is likely the only instance of a long-extinct Long Island golf course that's undeveloped and almost completely intact, as Peter was able to determine from the lidar elevation data.

I was able to get some first-hand accounts from LB-area residents who very fondly recall nighttime rounds there under the lights.  And they also confirm what Peter brought to life in his renderings, that the greens had slopes and movement far beyond what you typically find at a P&P course.

What's also remarkable is that it's not entirely out of the question that the course could be brought back to life for real.  The site has been up for sale for quite some time.  Who's got a few million handy and ready to do battle with the Town of Hempstead?

https://www.golfonlongisland.com/teebox/2022/02/resurrecting-long-lost-lido-golf-the-lido-springs-par-3-course.html

[Mark Fedeli]

Great work, Phil and Peter. I always wondered what was going on over the fence alongside 12. Just assumed the lights were from an overgrown parking lot.