Speith and Pebble Beach

[Mark Molyneux]

[size=78%]Speith's shot at Pebble Beach yesterday got me to thinking about dangerous course conditions and risks taken by well-intentioned golfers. I've stared at pictures from Old Head and wondered, "How close to the edge can you actually play?" I played a shot on 18 at Desert Highlands from the middle of the fairway with a coiled rattlesnake 10 or 12 feet away. Then there was the big gator behind me at Lakewood in New Orleans... fire ants near my bunker shot at Melreese near Miami. The closest shot to Speith's that I've ever hit has to be the one at #13 at Mahoghany Run (I don't think the course is there anymore... maybe BECAUSE of the Devil's Triangle... 13, 14 & 15. They all drop dramatically (100+ feet) to the rocks and water below. At MR, I pulled my approach to 13 green left and it was a few yards from the edge. Even though I was safe by 9 or 10 feet and even though I was hitting away from the precipice, I considered taking relief. So for purposes of discussion, does anybody want to comment on: 1. Speith's judgment. 2. The most dangerous shot they've ever hit. or 3. Generally and genuinely dangerous design aspects at courses they've played.?[/size]

[David_Tepper]

Earlier thread here:

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70718.0.html

Article at golf.com:

https://golf.com/news/jordan-spieth-inches-falling-70-feet-why-still-hit/?utm_campaign=forecast&utm_source=golf.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=%7Bdate%28&user_email=46711a7d8752dad1b1e7b5ee908db635b52d3af08061f8b9672ff1570f17bd75&utm_term=GOLFcom%20Top%20Stories%20Newsletter

[Jim Hoak]

I once had ball end up a few feet from two large hawks eating a squirrel they'd killed.  They were not going to let me get too close.  I dropped a ball with no penalty given the dangerous situation.

[Jeff Schley]

That shot was scary by Jordan, especially overhead drone which showed he was less than a foot from death. Who knows how your balance gets shifted after hitting a shot, or maybe there is a rock in the ground for his divot and throws him off. Fun to watch, but scary at the same time. IIRC that was the hole where Jordan was bitching at his caddie for a misclub a couple years back. To Grellar's credit he didn't give his boss a shove.

[Rob Marshall]

If I was Grellar I would have picked the ball up so he couldn't hit it. No shot was worth that. I also don't understand whey they don't have a 2 or 3 foot nice would fence that prevents anyone from trying that. I have to imagine that someone has died there.

[Tim_Weiman]

[size=78%]Speith's shot at Pebble Beach yesterday got me to thinking about dangerous course conditions and risks taken by well-intentioned golfers. I've stared at pictures from Old Head and wondered, "How close to the edge can you actually play?" I played a shot on 18 at Desert Highlands from the middle of the fairway with a coiled rattlesnake 10 or 12 feet away. Then there was the big gator behind me at Lakewood in New Orleans... fire ants near my bunker shot at Melreese near Miami. The closest shot to Speith's that I've ever hit has to be the one at #13 at Mahoghany Run (I don't think the course is there anymore... maybe BECAUSE of the Devil's Triangle... 13, 14 & 15. They all drop dramatically (100+ feet) to the rocks and water below. At MR, I pulled my approach to 13 green left and it was a few yards from the edge. Even though I was safe by 9 or 10 feet and even though I was hitting away from the precipice, I considered taking relief. So for purposes of discussion, does anybody want to comment on: 1. Speith's judgment. 2. The most dangerous shot they've ever hit. or 3. Generally and genuinely dangerous design aspects at courses they've played.?[/size]

Mark,


I played Old Head (or tried to play) in serious fog conditions. Not a good idea. Very dangerous I would say.

[John Kavanaugh]

Don’t let woke culture ruin one of the great shots in golf. You can’t be expected to carry a fence on that shot. The easiest solution is to eliminate the penalty for water hazards. Someone, and I’m sure have in the past, will drown. Or worse yet, fall in a sand trap and have a small kernel of sand go down your shorts. Enough friction and sweat and your ding dong might fall off.

[V. Kmetz]

[JESII]

That nails it right there VK...


Seeing the side view in a picture this morning, this is insanity.


First of all, he may have saved himself a half shot if Broadie were to ever crunch the numbers on a life threatening 9 iron versus a clean fairway lie 9 iron...add 1 for the unplayable and subtract 0.738 for the easier shot, or something like that.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Old joke:  Playing in Africa for the first time, Joe sliced his first shot into the jungle. While searching for it, a lion attacked him. The caddy pulled out a rifle and killed the animal. On the second hole, a par 3, Joe topped his tee ball to the edge of the pond. When he tried to play the shot, a crocodile clamped onto his leg, dragging him into the water. “Shoot it” Joe screamed in agony. “You don’t get a shot on this hole,” replied the caddy.

[JMEvensky]

That nails it right there VK...


Seeing the side view in a picture this morning, this is insanity.


First of all, he may have saved himself a half shot if Broadie were to ever crunch the numbers on a life threatening 9 iron versus a clean fairway lie 9 iron...add 1 for the unplayable and subtract 0.738 for the easier shot, or something like that.

I don't speak fluent Broadie but I'm pretty sure the life threatening 9-iron has to be worth more than 0.738 shots. And insanity ain't the half of it.


And thanks VK for the CA cartoon.

[John Kavanaugh]

Pros know where their feet are during a swing. Zero danger. Injury was far more likely when he did the flop/run at Whistling Straits.

[JESII]

Ha…they know where their feet are huh!?!


He could have gotten hurt at WS…he would have died here.


Sure, he had his feet under him AND he didn’t fall. What did he gain?

[SL_Solow]

I know a couple of individuals who weren't paying sufficient attention while in a cart at Pebble.  They got off but their cart and clubs went over the cliff'

[John Kavanaugh]

Ha…they know where their feet are huh!?!


He could have gotten hurt at WS…he would have died here.


Sure, he had his feet under him AND he didn’t fall. What did he gain?

He made a par that gave him the momentum to put himself in position for a win. A bogey there and he isn’t ever in the mix. A drop would have been a mental retreat.

[JESII]

I’m a big momentum guy, so you’re not wrong but it was Saturday. Hasn’t been a do or die shot on a Saturday since Venturi.

[John Kavanaugh]

I think that it has been proven that the great multiple major winners win most tournaments on Saturday. Tiger and Nicklaus to name a couple.


I'm sure that you have hit that shot on 8 from a perfect lie. Add a penalty stroke and double enters the equation.

[JESII]

I've only ever played there in a US Am 20+ years ago. My tee shot ended up about 3 feet behind where his was. First cut, flat clean lie...lucky. 8 iron long left to the same spot he hit it...also got up and down. Missed the cut.


I haven't seen any trophies given out on Saturday (other than Torrey last week) since 1964 USOpen...)

[John Kavanaugh]

I've only ever played there in a US Am 20+ years ago. My tee shot ended up about 3 feet behind where his was. First cut, flat clean lie...lucky. 8 iron long left to the same spot he hit it...also got up and down. Missed the cut.


I haven't seen any trophies given out on Saturday (other than Torrey last week) since 1964 USOpen...)

Congrats. I tried to qualify for that US Am and was politely, by letter no mind, asked by the USGA to never try again.

[JMEvensky]

Congrats. I tried to qualify for that US Am and was politely, by letter no mind, asked by the USGA to never try again.

I've got the same letter for the US Am and the US Open--I win. Thought about trying to qualify for the British Am and British Open so I could have my own Grand Slam of rejections.

[David Federman]

What about the guy who had to mow that area - the fairway extended pretty close to the edge, I believe. As for Jordan, I would not be surprised if there is a local rule next year prohibiting any shots from inside the penalty area, with a handy ball retriever close by! It was not windy Saturday, but a gust of wind could have killed him on national TV.

[Kalen Braley]

For a guy with a family, long career ahead of him, and enough money in the bank to never have to make another penny the rest of his life to live beyond comfortably...

There was literally nothing for him to gain by taking that stroke, and everything to lose...and for multiple people, not just himself.

P.S.  Seems like they could mark that area as environmentally sensitive, aka "don't be a dumb ass and try to play from here" to prevent people from trying that shot.  Lord knows some yahoo is going to try to replicate that shot and kill themselves.

[Kalen Braley]

"[Greller] said, 'I just don't, I just don't see the point. I don't think it's worth it. I just don't see the point.' Stuff like that, I think. He said that next, if that were to happen again he'll walk up, grab my ball and throw it in the water so that I can't hit it. He said, 'I should have done that.' He was like, 'I just didn't know what to do myself.'"

Spieth went on to say that he told Greller he didn't want him to approach the ball and see just how dramatic the drop was because he definitely would not have let him hit the shot.

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jordan-spieth-bothered-by-overhead-view-of-shot-along-edge-of-cliff-at-at-t-pebble-beach-pro-am/

P.S. I guess if he had fallen over the cliff, he would have been the run away winner for this years Darwin Awards...

[JohnVDB]

What about the guy who had to mow that area - the fairway extended pretty close to the edge, I believe. As for Jordan, I would not be surprised if there is a local rule next year prohibiting any shots from inside the penalty area, with a handy ball retriever close by! It was not windy Saturday, but a gust of wind could have killed him on national TV.

I had to paint the line before the 2019 Open up there and it is no fun.  They good declare it a no-play zone.   Or they could quit mowing it so that the grass is so high a player wouldn’t want to try the shot.


My concern is that some yahoo is going to try to be like Jordan and go over the edge.

[mike_beene]

Why not make the edge OB? I don’t like the stroke and distance, but is the beach any more a part of the property than the houses on the other side? Always thought it strange to have a half boundary course. But I guess The Old Course is as well.