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Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Old Barnwell
« on: February 04, 2022, 09:07:24 AM »
Here's a recent Golfweek piece about the new Aiken Club (besides Zac's) that's taking form....


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/02/new-club-old-barnwell-in-south-carolina-in-development-with-fresh-ideas-big-plans/
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2022, 09:45:21 AM »
I will have to retract that quote about "slowing down".  It's only a year old, and I've signed up six or seven new projects since then!

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2022, 11:04:52 AM »

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2022, 02:34:33 PM »
JC, why the last sentence about the designers being golfweek raters? Just curious why you found that noteworthy?

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2022, 06:40:18 PM »
Is there  difference between a Golfweek  rater and a best rater?
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2022, 06:56:58 PM »
It's important because the article is published in Golfweek. No one is going to brag for you, so do it yourself. I have no problem with it. Good for you to bring it up, JC.



Golfweek's Best is probably the working title of their rankings (https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/top-100-golf-courses-best-you-can-play/) ... so, there is no such thing as a Golfweek rater any longer.


Any more questions (no, I'm not a rater.)
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2022, 07:22:11 PM »
I spoke with Nick once and have had a few exchanges with him. I was interested in a Membership for my son, but my son's schedule is too complicated for a National Membership. As someone who has been disappointed in "Owner Dominated" memberships, I felt that Nick was very genuine.


I am on a different journey in life now, but Nick seemed like a very genuine Golfer. We GCAers are not an easy bunch to deal with, so I would suggest that we give Nick and Old Barnwell a chance.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2022, 07:55:14 PM »
Thanks, JC.

I'm very happy for Brian Schneider and Blake Conant.  I've met both Brian and Blake several times and they are always warm and friendly.  This opportunity sounds very promising.  Not only that, there appears to be a need for destination golf courses.  All the best to Mr. Schreiber and the design team.

Having this mini-boom in course construction is exciting.  It's been a long time since there was this much action.

Nick Schreiber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2022, 08:30:19 PM »
Thanks Jonathan for the write-up - we've received many inquiries in the two days since it was published online. Also, thank you to Mike, who was kind enough to chat with me before Old Barnwell had really taken shape... he also provided some valuable feedback on improving the membership presentation, as have other GCAers. 


I'm very excited about our mission, and as Blake/Brian begin the construction process, I couldn't be more confident that they're going to create something really special on what I believe to be a very special site (of course, I'm pretty biased). As Mr. Kirk's suggests, Brian and Blake are kind and generous, and have been so much FUN to work with. They're smart and curious and focused... but they also have a great (read: immature) sense of humor, which makes being on group texts with them and John Lavelle, our new Director of Agronomy, a welcome, if unintended consequence of developing the club.


I appreciate all the support and healthy/warranted skepticism on this message board - I don't think it's a stretch to say that if I hadn't stumbled upon Mr. Doak's books and this site five or six years ago, the idea of Old Barnwell would have never been born.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2022, 09:32:40 PM »
Here's a recent Golfweek piece about the new Aiken Club (besides Zac's) that's taking form....


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/02/new-club-old-barnwell-in-south-carolina-in-development-with-fresh-ideas-big-plans/

Jonathon,


Thanks for this update and the story about Old Barnwell.


A couple questions I’m hoping you or someone can answer:


First, can anyone compare the two Aiken properties (the Tree Farm and Old Barnwell)? I am assuming soil conditions are fairly similar, but curious about topography, scale and whatever notable features exist.


Second, I would like the visit Aiken sometime this summer. What will be the status of each courses’ development? Will both have routing and clearing complete? Will both we walkable (all 18) to get a feel for each course sit?


Thanks Jonathon or to anyone who can answer.
Tim Weiman

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2022, 09:46:42 PM »
Tim, click on the(small) links I posted on the parkland thread, and/or visit Zac Blair's instagram page.
should answer your TF questions re terrain.


I'll let Nick comment on Old Barnwell, but they are on a similar timeline.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 11:06:08 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2022, 10:04:36 PM »
Tim, click on the(small) links I posted on the parkland thread, and/or visit Zac Blair's instagram page.
should answer all your questions.


I'll let Nick comment on Old Barnwell, but they are on a similar timeline.
Jeff,


Thanks. My golf travels have taught me that even when you go to a “cluster” - courses in close proximity - the courses may be very different. The Monterey Peninsula is an example. There are many others, including the Melbourne Sandbelt (consider Royal Melbourne vs Kinston Heath).


So, I am just curious how similar or different the Tree Farm and Old Barnwell site may be.
Tim Weiman

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2022, 11:11:12 PM »
Tim, click on the(small) links I posted on the parkland thread, and/or visit Zac Blair's instagram page.
should answer all your questions.


I'll let Nick comment on Old Barnwell, but they are on a similar timeline.
Jeff,


Thanks. My golf travels have taught me that even when you go to a “cluster” - courses in close proximity - the courses may be very different. The Monterey Peninsula is an example. There are many others, including the Melbourne Sandbelt (consider Royal Melbourne vs Kinston Heath).


So, I am just curious how similar or different the Tree Farm and Old Barnwell site may be.


Both properties are unique,even to the nearby land around them.
Both have extensive elevation change, and rolling, often dramatic topography.
They are a solid 30 minutes apart, as neither is in Aiken the city, but rather Aiken County.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2022, 12:53:21 AM »
Thanks Jeff!
Tim Weiman

Michael Chadwick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2022, 11:26:27 PM »
This evening, Don Placek of Renaissance Golf Design shared to Instagram a work-in-progress plan of Old Barnwell, featuring a routing he refers to as "sporty and interesting." https://www.instagram.com/p/CZ5bszOM2eq/?utm_medium=copy_link


At initial glance, there are multiple drives that appear strategic and fun, utilizing fairways set at angles relative to tees--much like a cape--allowing the player to choose how much to bite off. 2, 3, 8, 9, 14, 16, 18 all seem to offer that.


Holes 9 and 14 appear to be potentially drivable, shorter par 4s.


Holes 2 and 3 share the same landform and fairway with greens at both ends, as if you were looking at reversible holes.


Quite neat to see plans, even if they may change going forward!




Instagram: mj_c_golf

Amol Yajnik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2022, 10:28:31 AM »
Derek Duncan with a good writeup on Old Barnwell in Golf Digest: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/old-barnwell-new-club-change/


How refreshing to see a developer think this way:

Quote
The shaping of the course is beginning this spring. To this point, even without much golf progress to show, interest and demand have far exceeded expectations, indicating that the message of inclusion and community is closer to the heart of what many golfers desire than perhaps it’s ever been. The club will not be able to accommodate everyone who wants in, so there’s work to be done to remain true to the vision Old Barnwell projects.
“I will say candidly that I would like to see more diversity in terms of our (prospective) members,” Schreiber says. “I’m not satisfied. We are still getting a lot of, you know, white males who want to join,” no surprise given the site, social media impact, the adventurous zeitgeist flowing through golf right now and the involvement of Schneider and Conant, who are exceptionally well-regarded in architectural circles, which, it must be said, is a domain made up almost entirely of white males.
“And I don't have any problem with that,” Schreiber says. “I just want to make sure that we're available and reaching folks that, again, might not otherwise consider this opportunity, people who don’t already belong to a club.”
Golf, particularly in the United States, has had a long history of putting up gates and fences, and of being closed off. Old Barnwell is meant to be the opposite, or as Schreiber puts it, available. An open hand. And the timing seems perfect. Different is what Old Barnwell hopes to be, and different may well be one of those reasons people begin to choose to play golf.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2022, 01:21:59 PM »
I was going to say if you want diversity, you should just be a public course open to all.  But really whether the course is public or private, it is economic disparity that gets in the way of diversity.  It’s the same dynamic that makes it impossible for a brand new course to be as “affordable” as some people want it to be.

Nick Schreiber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2022, 08:50:53 AM »
Tom,


I think you're probably right, but my hope is that by trying some new strategies out (e.g. connecting students from local HBCUs to members for a round here and there to help them learn the game, but also expand their network), and maybe taking some liberties as an owner to create lower cost or, (*gasp*) free memberships to local community leaders or folks they put forth as good candidates, Old Barnwell will create something that's more diverse than the average club.

Given your background, I would assume you came up against the status quo as an obstacle on many occasions. I hope I can be half as successful as you have been in upending that status quo. .


And, Amol, I appreciate your kind words. 


- Nick

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2022, 09:21:19 AM »
I was going to say if you want diversity, you should just be a public course open to all.  But really whether the course is public or private, it is economic disparity that gets in the way of diversity.  It’s the same dynamic that makes it impossible for a brand new course to be as “affordable” as some people want it to be.


Your second and third sentence explain why the first sentence wouldn't really promote diversity(at a new build).as it would be cost prohibitive unless different rates were charged for different demographics-an untried and slippery slope-but an interesting concept.


Many/most private clubs have excess capacity that can be used in a variety of ways though a bit of creativity,cooperation and flexibility with the maintenance crew may be required.
A well managed private club,in the proper demographic can subsidize and provide that capacity/opportunity to those not in that same demographic-if it chooses to, especially if the members and owner know what the mission is they are signing up for.
This can be especially helpful if the members embrace the mission and include the diverse in their play, thus reducing the strain on capacity by simply filling out a foursome or threesome, rather than creating multiple groups.
Not easy, but if it were easy, more clubs would already be doing it.(to be fair, many clubs do this to some degree with High School and employee or caddie play)
Kudos to Nick for trying to expand on this.


The trick is,being able to match the time the capacity is available, with the schedule of the diverse they are seeking-no doubt a very difficult task.
For example:his LPGA support could work easily as they(living on site) would tailor their practice and play around peak member times, and at peak times ,integrate their play with members as well, enriching the experience for both members and aspiring players.
Not so easy-HBCU and High School programs which may have an academic schedule similar to many member's work schedule, but in theory the High Schoolers would be working in peak times and playing/practicing around the edges of work and school.
There's ALWAYS time for a game early in the evening April-October for those not bound to social engagements-which it seems so many are.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 04:08:08 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2022, 01:31:28 PM »
Nick:


Great to hear your answer, and I hope you lean on Jeff for more ideas on how to fill up the time sheet. 


Jeff’s post reminded me that when I was doing the planning work for Bel Air, one night I came upon a ragtag group of teens out with a member.  The member came up to say hello - it was Mac Davis (he wanted to ask me not to cut down any more trees than we needed to) - and though I didn’t ask exactly what his group was about, he was likely the only member hosting a group of underprivileged kids at Bel Air that day.


I hope you find a bunch of members like him.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2022, 02:14:58 PM »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2022, 02:41:14 PM »
https://www.nicholsschool.org/news-detail?pk=1287803


What does this have to do with Old Barnwell? I read the article and I see no connection to golf. I guess it’s a coincidence that the school is your employer. ;)

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2022, 04:40:37 PM »
Nick:


Great to hear your answer, and I hope you lean on Jeff for more ideas on how to fill up the time sheet. 


Jeff’s post reminded me that when I was doing the planning work for Bel Air, one night I came upon a ragtag group of teens out with a member.  The member came up to say hello - it was Mac Davis (he wanted to ask me not to cut down any more trees than we needed to) - and though I didn’t ask exactly what his group was about, he was likely the only member hosting a group of underprivileged kids at Bel Air that day.


I hope you find a bunch of members like him.
Tom,


The Golf Digest article about Old Barnwell also brought back a fond memory from my golf travels.


My first trip to Ballybunion was back in the 1980s before the Celtic Tiger when unemployment in County Kerry was running about 40-45%.


Kevin Frost and I played a match against two locals. Sure, they were “white males” but they looked like coal miners from West Virginia. Their only privilege was being able to play the course even though they probably couldn’t pay the annual club dues (200 Irish).


Fortunately, Club Secretary Sean Walsh and enough well off American visitors made things work.
Tim Weiman

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2023, 01:59:55 PM »
OB designers Brian Schneider and Blake Conent were recently on The Tie podcast, and I would HIGHLY recommend having a listen. Just based on photos and their conversation, I think what they're doing down there is incredibly cool, and contrasts a lot of new builds that we see today. Specifically, I loved the point they made about being intentional with not hiding areas where they moved some dirt around, and utilising Victorian Age features as inspiration for some of the features they're building.


They go into some detail on how they worked the 16th, and Blake then posted a few photos on Twitter to bring to life the conversation. Wow! It reminds me of a sophisticated version of something you might see at Kington or Huntercombe!


When thinking about conversations on what the future of GCA design might look like, I feel like there is a place for this type of design. The style and direction of OB feels fresh, different, and fun.


I can't wait to follow along as they progress to the final stages of the build. Have a listen!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2023, 02:12:33 PM by Tim Gallant »

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old Barnwell
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2023, 02:24:00 PM »
I was going to say if you want diversity, you should just be a public course open to all.  But really whether the course is public or private, it is economic disparity that gets in the way of diversity.  It’s the same dynamic that makes it impossible for a brand new course to be as “affordable” as some people want it to be.


Your second and third sentence explain why the first sentence wouldn't really promote diversity(at a new build).as it would be cost prohibitive unless different rates were charged for different demographics-an untried and slippery slope-but an interesting concept.


Many/most private clubs have excess capacity that can be used in a variety of ways though a bit of creativity,cooperation and flexibility with the maintenance crew may be required.
A well managed private club,in the proper demographic can subsidize and provide that capacity/opportunity to those not in that same demographic-if it chooses to, especially if the members and owner know what the mission is they are signing up for.
This can be especially helpful if the members embrace the mission and include the diverse in their play, thus reducing the strain on capacity by simply filling out a foursome or threesome, rather than creating multiple groups.
Not easy, but if it were easy, more clubs would already be doing it.(to be fair, many clubs do this to some degree with High School and employee or caddie play)
Kudos to Nick for trying to expand on this.


The trick is,being able to match the time the capacity is available, with the schedule of the diverse they are seeking-no doubt a very difficult task.
For example:his LPGA support could work easily as they(living on site) would tailor their practice and play around peak member times, and at peak times ,integrate their play with members as well, enriching the experience for both members and aspiring players.
Not so easy-HBCU and High School programs which may have an academic schedule similar to many member's work schedule, but in theory the High Schoolers would be working in peak times and playing/practicing around the edges of work and school.
There's ALWAYS time for a game early in the evening April-October for those not bound to social engagements-which it seems so many are.


I believe that the University of Maryland Eastern Shore is the only HBCU with a golf management program. Our pro has hired interns from the school. She also has worked to hire women who want to go into the profession.


Nick, I am sorry that we did not connect last year about non-profit organizations. Totally my bad and of course willing to try again. Continued good luck with your visionary initiative.


Ira

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