Royal Dornach hole 2

[Anthony Gray]

https://youtu.be/ncJNp9Yjm1c

 It’s a glob of dirt.


 Very cool.


 On flat land I’ve seen the glob of dirt greens. Many times for areas where drainage was an issue.


 Or the ramp with a green on top


 But this hole seems to be a glob of dirt x10


 What do you think about this hole?


 It comes early in the round. Puts a premium on the short game.


 

[David_Tepper]

Having played the hole close to 500 times over the past 22 years, all I can say is I play that hole trying to make no more than a 4 (and that is no easy thing to do). The two fronting bunkers are very deep and the slopes off the left & right side of the green are very steep. Even laying up short in front of the green is not without some challenge.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I think it looks OK, but if I were to change anything, I'd remove both bunkers. I don't think the bunkers add much other than make it more difficult/penal. It would be a nicer simpler less cluttered hole without them and the focus would be on recovery shots from grassy areas below the green. But, I've never played the course.

[Anthony Gray]

Having played the hole close to 500 times over the past 22 years, all I can say is I play that hole trying to make no more than a 4 (and that is no easy thing to do). The two fronting bunkers are very deep and the slopes off the left & right side of the green are very steep. Even laying up short in front of the green is not without some challenge.

 Excellent David. When I first played I thought “Why is this hole seldom mentioned?”  It hits you in the face at the start.

[Anthony Gray]

I think it looks OK, but if I were to change anything, I'd remove both bunkers. I don't think the bunkers add much other than make it more difficult/penal. It would be a nicer simpler less cluttered hole without them and the focus would be on recovery shots from grassy areas below the green. But, I've never played the course.

 It is a penal hole. Not sure where is the best place to miss it. Maybe 10 yards short but that’s giving up.

[David_Tepper]

Anthony -

Not sure why you say the hole is "seldom mentioned." It has been written about a lot and talked about often.

DT

[Ken Moum]

I've played it, as a mediocre at best player, and it's not as if there's any deception in it.


IIRC I played with Tepper when I was in the right bunker, bladed it across the green and got up and down from there.


More memorable was David's ace on 10 (?)


Playing with a different, single digit member, the fact that he laid up off the tee said a lot.

[mike_malone]

I find the maintenance to be a little goofy. The raised green with its narrowness can lead to a back and forth chipping experience.


 So I think the hole as presented is unattractive.


Full disclosure—I played it 5 times in four days with one birdie and no doubles.

[Thomas Dai]

Splendidly wicked hole where a lay-up from the tee, yes a lay-up on a par-3 (see Billy Casper US Open at Winged Foot) can sometimes be the best tee shot.
Atb

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony -

Not sure why you say the hole is "seldom mentioned." It has been written about a lot and talked about often.

DT

 Before i went there it was not mentioned it what a read about the course. 

[Steve Lapper]

I think the hole and its immediacy in the routing is brilliant.


Your first hole "gentle handshake" often becomes a mano-a-mano brawl two swings later. I've played this hole over a dozen times and a miss right or left is a mood-changer for sure. Bogies or worse leap in probability. Something short or in one of the front of the (well-placed) bunkers leaves a modicum of hope for avoiding such an outcome. Only a shot onto the green's shrunken effective landing area can reduce a knowledgable player's tension.


Few, if any, copies of this exist elsewhere in golf, maybe for a good reason yielding to its native difficulty, yet as a boldly-designed piece of substantial golf architecture, it's ingenious. In so many ways, I think this genius reappears periodically in shots on holes like Riviera#10, Myopia #9, Plainfield#11, Seminole#17, Crystal Downs#9, SHinnecock#11 et.al.


As for concern about the hole's maintenance, how else should it be presented?? Most other practices would mollify or neuter the hole's greatness.   


FWIW, by no means does the following stretch of holes rely on penal architecture. Only arriving on the approach shot at #14 does a similar emotional fear reappear.

[David_Tepper]

While not a false front, the first 1/3 of the green has a distinct downward slope. Any putts around hole high have a lot of break. Putts from above the hole can easily run away from you. I have seen putts from above the hole roll down off the front of the green.

[David_Tepper]

From No Laying Up:

"The second is a par three measuring 184 yards, and home to what Tom Watson calls “the hardest shot in golf.” No, it’s not the long iron off the tee into the prevailing wind. It’s the second shot. When you inevitably miss this green, you’ll see why. The surface is narrow, and sits perched well above the two bunkers that frame the front. If you’re wayward, it might take you a few back and forths across the width of the green before it finally finds the surface."

From Graylyn Loomis:

"Hole #2 – 177 yards – “Ord” – This is one of the most famous and challenging holes on the course. The green is raised 10+ feet above the surrounding land and deep bunkers swallow the typical misses. Aim center green as you would at a place like Donald Ross’s Pinehurst No. 2!"

[JohnVDB]

Having played it over 100 times at this point, I take enough club to get to the front of the green, or with perfect contact to the middle. I don’t find the bunkers to be that penal unless you barely roll in and have the back lip in your backswing or you get right up under the face.  Missing left or right hole high, especially left, is a much more difficult recovery.


I think it is a very challenging hole and provides options such as laying up as David does, sorta laying up like or being daring but making birdies more possible.  In 34 rounds last year, I averaged 3.88 with 5 scores over 4 and a couple of birdies.  This tied with my average on #6, the other brutal par 3.

[Jerry Kluger]

I know it may be a stretch but do you think that it might have had some influence or been in the thoughts of C & C in designing the green at the 14th at Bandon Trails - I know I may be way off on this but I thought I would give it a shot knowing how much the UK and Ireland have influenced them.

[Ian Mackenzie]

https://nolayingup.com/blog/royal-dornoch


"The second is a par three measuring 184 yards, and home to what [/size]Tom Watson calls “the hardest shot in golf.” [/color][/size]No, it’s not the long iron off the tee into the prevailing wind. [/color][/size]It’s the second shot. [/color][/size]When you inevitably miss this green, you’ll see why. The surface is narrow, and sits perched well above the two bunkers that frame the front. If you’re wayward, it might take you a few back and forths across the width of the green before it finally finds the surface."[/color]

[Sean_A]

The bunkers do add an element of intimidation. I don't know if that is good or bad. The hole would probably look better bunker free and maybe encourage more golfers to be aggressive. I play the hole similar to JVDB.

And yes, the hole is famous and much talked about.

Ciao

[JohnVDB]

One nice thing is that it is the 6 stroke index, so most people get a stroke which means I played it net under par for the year in 2021. So I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.


I played in a medal in August with a young player who was quite good.  He made a 7 on it but still shot 73 with a double on 18.

[Matt Wharton]

Had the good fortune to play this hole 4 times this past fall. I went bogey, par, birdie, and par. The birdie was a solid 8-iron that landed on the front and came to rest about 8 inches from the cup. My final par I putted around the lip of the front left bunker to about 4 feet and sank the putt. Needless to say those two shots will be forever satisfying.


Ironically in the same round where I scored the birdie 2, I made 8 on the par 3 10th. Into the wind made that small green harder to hit and one can easily pitch back-and-forth across 10 just as easily as one can on 2, just saying. 


Cheers,

[Michael Whitaker]

The first time I played Dornoch I overheard someone in the group ahead ask his caddy what he thought was the most difficult shot on the course. The caddy said, “your second shot on #2.”


They had no idea it was a par 3!

[JohnVDB]

The first time I played Dornoch I overheard someone in the group ahead ask his caddy what he thought was the most difficult shot on the course. The caddy said, “your second shot on #2.”


They had no idea it was a par 3!

I was hosting some friends from the US there.  The night before we played I told them it was the best short par 5 in the world.  Needless to say they were surprised, but a couple of them did make “par”

[James Boon]

Earlier this year a group of friends and I traveled up to the Highlands for a golf trip. I was a late add reserve, and as such the day they played Dornoch in an Open comp I wasnt able to play. I've been lucky enough to play Dornoch on quite a few occasions so wasnt too upset at missing out and was glad my friends all got to experience it.


Its only on reading this thread, and on thinking about my own experiences of the 2nd, that I've realised I missed out! They played in an individual medal, and I've only ever played for fun or in a 4BBB and as such perhaps there has been less pressure on the reality of the missing the green. I actually went through something of a honeymoon period in that virtually every time I played the 2nd I hit the green. I missed a few times, but short from miss hits, and actually holed a long putt from off the green for a birdie from short. Then on what must have been my 20'something round I blocked it right, kicked off the bank to some way right, and from there I went back and fore a few times before picking up and moving on after finally realising the danger.

I now realise I missed out, as on reflection I'm not sure how I'd play it with a medal card in my hand, perhaps the lay up short is the smart play?

Cheers,

James