More length on the Old Course

[James Reader]

It looks like there’s a new 7th tee being built on the Old Course in preparation for the Open.  From what I could see on a quick look yesterday, it’ll add 30-40 yards on a line directly behind the existing tees.  Presumably it’s intended to stop anyone attempting to drive the green by increasing the carry over Shell to over 330 yards.

[Anthony Gray]

It looks like there’s a new 7th tee being built on the Old Course in preparation for the Open.  From what I could see on a quick look yesterday, it’ll add 30-40 yards on a line directly behind the existing tees.  Presumably it’s intended to stop anyone attempting to drive the green by increasing the carry over Shell to over 330 yards.

 Is the best play hitting it into the bunker?

[James Reader]

It looks like there’s a new 7th tee being built on the Old Course in preparation for the Open.  From what I could see on a quick look yesterday, it’ll add 30-40 yards on a line directly behind the existing tees.  Presumably it’s intended to stop anyone attempting to drive the green by increasing the carry over Shell to over 330 yards.

 Is the best play hitting it into the bunker?

Definitely not!  I drove into Shell yesterday.  The face is 6ft+ high and it would be very possible to find yourself having to play out sideways.  As it was, I was a few feet short of the face and just about managed to get onto the front of the green.


Unless you can be sure of carrying it - which is very doable for big hitters from the forward tees with - the play has to be to lay up short.

[Kalen Braley]

I fired up Google Earth and it looks like the carry from the back tee is already about 320-325.  So a new tee 30-40 yards back would make that a helluva carry for anyone not named Bryson...

P.S.  How does that 7/11 exchange work on the daily for normal play?  Looks like it could get a bit complicated with the cross-over, players accidentally hitting it on the wrong green, spraying the ball around, windy conditions, etc.

[Tim Gallant]

James,


I was told this was for spectators, but maybe that was just a rumour?

[James Reader]

James,


I was told this was for spectators, but maybe that was just a rumour?

I suppose it could be.  The guys I was playing with said it was a new tee, but the work wasn’t progressed far enough to be able to tell either way.  It certainly seemed credible if they are looking to add a bit more length as there aren’t many other places they could do it.  But maybe it’s that that is just a rumour.


I’m up again in a few weeks, so I’ll see where they’ve got to with it either way.

[Gib_Papazian]

Watching the R&A ruthlessly flog the old lady, trying to find a few yards here and there has defaced and perverted the world's most important golf course.


That new tee on #14 they built a few years back - in the middle of (I think) one of the Eden Course fairways - looks ridiculous and desperate.


It is a bit like the contortive machinations the dandruff club goes through, erasing the genius of Merion East with a bag full of shopworn, cheap perversions.


Maybe it is time to just admit the war against technology has been lost and throw in the towel. Either leave TOC alone and forget about the illusion of protecting par - which is bullshit - or stop holding the Open there.


I do not think Prestwick (I bow) has been diminished by falling off the rota - so what is the point of inflicting this idiocy of incrementally defacing TOC?


Some golf courses do not have sufficient defenses against these jacked-up animals on Tour. The Walker Cup at NGLA is perfectly fine for match play, but if the US Open were held there - unless they frankensteined it worse than they do our Lake Course, EVEN turning par-5s into par-4s - the winning score would be 260 or lower.


TOC is the Mona Lisa - but still a relic from a bygone era - like Lahinch, Cruden Bay, New Course - even Ballybunion.


Trying to hide the elephant in the room - that without a strong gale, TOC is really a pitch & putt for the big guns - is just avoiding the naked downstream reality that the genie is irretrievably out of the lamp.






 


 


 


   

[Thomas Dai]

Time for a TOC roll-back spec ball. Never know, it might catch on (sic).
Atb

[Tony_Muldoon]

How long before the R& A requisition The Second Tee at North Berwick to start the course.  Look good on TV and at last they'll have a serious water carry to make on the first hole. The fairway can be the 4th at Elie - although not before they've grown the rough in.


Helicopter back to the second tee at...

[Anthony Gray]

Watching the R&A ruthlessly flog the old lady, desperately trying to find a few yards here and there has defaced and perverted the world's most important golf course.


That new tee on #14 they built a few years back - in the middle of (I think) one of the Eden Course fairways - looks ridiculous and desperate.


It is a bit like the contortive machinations the dandruff club goes through, erasing the genius of Merion East with a bag full of shopworn, cheap perversions.


Maybe it is time to just admit the war against technology has been lost and throw in the towel. Either leave TOC alone and forget about the illusion of protecting par - which is bullshit - or stop holding the Open there.


I do not think Prestwick (I bow) has been diminished by falling off the rota - so what is the point of inflicting this idiocy of incrementally defacing TOC?


Some golf courses do not have sufficient defenses against these jack-up animals on Tour. The Walker Cup at NGLA is perfectly fine for match play, but if the US Open were held there - unless they frankensteined it worse than they do on our Lake Course, EVEN turning par-5s into par-4s - the winning score would be 260 or lower.


TOC is the Mona Lisa - but still a relic from a bygone era - like Lahinch, Cruden Bay, New Course - even Ballybunion.


Trying to hide the elephant in the room - that without a strong gale, TOC is really a pitch & putt for the big guns - is just avoiding the naked downstream reality that the genie is irretrievably out of the lamp.






 


 


 


   

 You can’t say it any better than this. It is defaced.  Watching -layers put out then walk backwards 70 yards to the next tee is disrespectful.


 Babe Ruth not being able to round the bases.


 Ali against Holmes was difficult to watch.


 Y A Tiittle with the bleeding brow.


 It’s time to retire it respectfully. Maybe the next go around. 


Well said Gib.

[Ken Moum]

Gib, as bad as 14 is, 2 is horrible. Putting a tee on The Himalayas (OB for normal play) is crazy.


And 17 isn't much better.

[mike_beene]

I disagree. I look forward to the Open every 5 or so years at TOC. They are not ruining green sites. The course will play the same for everyone the rest of the year. Would you rather they just move the Open to the Belfry? And the half par holes are interesting…Just my opinion.

[Gib_Papazian]

Mike,


As my father would say: "Fine and dandy."


But trying to screw oversized plastic tits on a runway model to achieve an arbitrary look insults the aesthetic sensibilities of those who know better.

[Peter Flory]

If these guys had to play it with hickory clubs, they'd still be under par (and it would be much more entertaining to watch). 

[Matthew Mollica]

Apart from the issue of added length, news surrounding contemporary mowing lines on TOC are concerning.


Can I ask a favor of someone in that neck of the woods - can you please post a photo from ground level while walking down 16? I'm consistently hearing whispers of the left rough line getting ever closer to the Principal's Nose. And that the rough on the left of 17 is increasing in area. Seems to me that propagation of long rough in these spots is near anathema.

[Sean_A]

Apart from the issue of added length, news surrounding contemporary mowing lines on TOC are concerning.


Can I ask a favor of someone in that neck of the woods - can you please post a photo from ground level while walking down 16? I'm consistently hearing whispers of the left rough line getting ever closer to the Principal's Nose. And that the rough on the left of 17 is increasing in area. Seems to me that propagation of long rough in these spots is near anathema.

There is no P Nose. It's now a bunker with a few steps of fairway to the left. It's basically been this way for years.


Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

No easy answers but no course, not even one as steeped in history as St. Andrews wants to become or be considered a relic. I don’t know if we are there yet and obviously it depends on the weather  particularly the wind but if many or
most of the holes especially on the double greens become driveable, the course will be a safety and slow play nightmare for major events. 

[Kalen Braley]

Seems like a cheaper way to "protect par", instead of defacing the course,  over-water the fairways during Open week and keep the greens firm...

[Mark_Fine]

Kalen,
It is not just about protecting par it is their attempt to make the course more then as Gib said, just chip and putt.  I also believe it also might be a safety and pace of play factor.  As I said on the starting hole thread, drivable holes can create all kinds of safety and pace of play issues.  I even drove three of the par fours last time I played.  Just think what those guys will do. 

[MCirba]

Will Bryson try to drive the 1st green?


Will he need to club down downwind?


Not sure I care about professional golf much any longer but this is where the game's governing bodies fears of a lawsuit by the equipment companies and failure to face reality have brought us.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,
It is not just about protecting par it is their attempt to make the course more then as Gib said, just chip and putt.  I also believe it also might be a safety and pace of play factor.  As I said on the starting hole thread, drivable holes can create all kinds of safety and pace of play issues.  I even drove three of the par fours last time I played.  Just think what those guys will do.

We're saying the same thing in essence, even if my suggestion was obviously tongue in cheek. Soggy fairways would mean far longer approaches and avoidance of most chip and putt scenarios (when laying 1). Of course this would also negate the other dangers of TOC as the ball would be a lot less likely to roll into a bad spot, so of course not a practical solution.

P.S. The actual solution is well known and right there for all to see, they just need the courage to do it...

[Tim Gallant]

Matt! Great to see you posting. I might be up there next week if we're successful in the ballot, so I'll snap some photos, but as Sean notes, the rough has gone right up to the bunkers for years now. I looked on Google Earth, and even from 2006, it is almost hard-up against the bunkers.


MCirba - I would consider myself an architectural purist, but I would LOVE to see Bryson try to drive the first green. How electric would that be? I'm not a massive Bryson fan, but that would be quite entertaining, compared to the mid irons that most players hit on that hole. It brings all sorts of numbers into play - 2s and 10s.


I agree things need to roll back and St Andrews probably isn't the test it used to be for the pros, but it's all about narrative. If St Andrews hadn't hosted an Open for 50 years and they said they would host the 150th with the addition of a few tee boxes, people would lose their minds. I remember a thread here about the feasibility of Prestwick hosting the Open again, and most were willing to change entire holes to get sufficient length!

[Marty Bonnar]

From the championship tee, it would be around 330yds to clear the Swilken Burn. Surely doable for Bratson, but the green is what, maybe 35 yards deep. If it’s been a dry Summer, he’d presumably roll through and end up in the deep rough behind it. Worth the bother?
I’d still like to see him try!
F.

[Kalen Braley]

Marty,

I noticed same too, can't imagine how that would be worth the risk, unless BDC is going to try to play a calculated bounce over the burn?  It is only about 2 yards wide according to Google Earth. 

P.S.  12 looks to be very exploitable, unless they have a new tee further behind 11 that doesn't show on Google Earth.  It looks like its only 265 to carry all but the single pot bunker closer to the green.  Almost seems less risky to just go over the 4 and risk going into the 1, then keeping it short and going in to one of the 4?

[MCirba]

Fellows,

My comment on Bryson having a go at #1 was somewhat apocryphal as he certainly has the distance but to your point, the risk factor is high.   However, given a player who can carry the ball over 350 yards on firm links turf can presumably also drive holes upwards of 420 or downwind, possibly further, and most of those holes don't carry the type of penalty as the burn or the high rough behind it.

A mild zephyr blowing out might bring driving any number of front nine holes into play, and makes 5 into a drive and flip wedge, no?