Template holes with non-template par

[Jordan Standefer]

The eighth hole at Santa Ana CC (a Jay Blasi design in Orange County, CA) is a par-5 with a Biarritz green. I think it’s a great choice. You could play that hole forever and never have the same yardage on your approach. You can have a long iron or fairway wood going for it in two. You can lay back to your preferred short iron or wedge distance. You can lay up closer and play any variety of short game shots, all dependent on hole location. It’s a wonderful change of pace from your typical Biarritz par-3.

NGLA’s Punchbowl is a par-4 and Sand Valley’s is a long par-3.

Can an Alps be a par-3? If so, does the 10th at Friar’s Head qualify?

I’d love to see some more examples of template holes with atypical pars you have come across and whether you think they detract or improve on the original.

[Tim Martin]

16 at Wexford Plantation in Hilton Head is a par four with a Biarritz green.

[Paul Rudovsky]

First, the double green #8/#17 at Old Elm near Chicago (which I consider to be the coolest green I have ever seen) is a apr 3 Redan for #17 (that is normal par) plus a par 4 (or possibly par 5 ) Biarritz green


Second...my recollection (and not 100% sure of this) is that the front nine of Chicago gold has a par 4 with a Redan green.


And Cape holes I think come as par 4 's and par 5's routinely.  (Par 5 example would be #7 at Bethpage Black)

[Peter Flory]

The original 10th hole at Erin Hills was a par 5 with a biarritz green. 


The NLE 6th hole at Ocean Links was a par 4 with an Eden green complex.

[Donnie Beck]

#12 Fishers Island par 4 reverse redan.

[Jordan Standefer]

#12 Fishers Island par 4 reverse redan.

That is one cool looking green!


An otherwise unremarkable NLE course I played had a driveable par-4 with a Redan green. I always looked forward to trying hit the perfect shot.

[Kyle Harris]

Are we considering #13 at Pine Valley a redan?

[Mike Hendren]

The 1st at Blue Mound is a par four with a redan green.  Blue Mound remains underrated.  IMHO there is no course with a better set of greens. 


The 2nd at Forest Oaks (Maples) is a par five with a biarritz green.


Bogey

[Jeff Shelman]

Bogey,


I saw the thread title and immediately thought of No. 1 at Blue Mound. But you beat me to it.

[Rob Nydick]

The 13th at Somerset is a par four featuring a biarritz green.

[Wayne_Kozun]

8 at Cabot Cliffs is also a Biarritz green on a par 5 - a fairly reachable par 5 even for modest hitters.

[MCirba]

Bobby Weed built a par five with a Biarritz green at Glen Mills...think it is 15 or 16.  It works well for all length approaches.

[mike_malone]

Mike Cirba,


 15.

[Thomas Dai]

Imagine there might be a few iconic template holes which have a non-template par for a short hitting very young or older generation player with limited physical strength.
And the other side of the coin, iconic template holes that were once challenging pars for elite players and longer hitters but are now nothing like so challenging with modern balls and clubs and modern folks physical prowess.
Atb

[MCirba]

The uphill par 4 third hole at Lakewood (NJ) GC has a Biarritz style green, as well.  I'm pretty sure this was done by Walter Travis as part of his mass revamping of the course around 1920 but wouldn't it be a hoot if it was from Willie Norton's original 1903 design or 1910 revisions by Norton and Isaac Mackie.

[Jordan Standefer]

And the other side of the coin, iconic template holes that were once challenging pars for elite players and longer hitters but are now nothing like so challenging with modern balls and clubs and modern folks physical prowess.
Atb

I've played three Road holes, all of them par-5s, which is how the original played.

[Tim Passalacqua]

At Yale, they have a par 3 redan (13th) and 2 redans on par 4s. The 8th and a reverse redan on the 11th.

[Tim Martin]

At Yale, they have a par 3 redan (13th) and 2 redans on par 4s. The 8th and a reverse redan on the 11th.

Tim-The back left pin on 8 is in my handful of favorites on a course full of compelling greens and flag locations. The redan feature is your friend to a back left position and mortal enemy to a back right position.

[Bret Lawrence]

The original Maiden green from Sandwich was a blind Par 3. Raynor built quite a few of these greens on Par 4’s.  I believe Travis may have built a few of these as well.  The 15th green at Wanumetonomy is one of my favorite versions.  You can find them at Southampton, Dedham, CC of Charleston, and a few others. It also looks like the 9th green at the Links Golf Club was a Maiden green.  I see no reason why these couldn’t work on a Par 5 as well.  There may be examples on a Par 5, but I can’t think of any off hand.


Hotchkiss’ first hole is a terrific two-shot reverse Redan.  The original 17th at Sleepy Hollow was a two-shot Eden hole.  I’m not sure if it had anything in common with 7 at Ocean Links other than the green being similar to the 11th at St. Andrews. (It was gone by 1924)