[Anthony Gray]

 I can think of the 13th at Kingsbarns but not sure I’ve seen an other.


 

[Matt_Cohn]

One answer would be that a small green on a short par 3 could get beaten up pretty badly. But maybe there's more to it. Does 13 at SFGC count?

[Tom_Doak]

Yes, partly it’s because architects and superintendents are afraid to build a really small or really narrow green anymore.  The turf might not always be perfect!  Can’t have that!


Additionally, many developers or consultants would say people don’t want bunkers that severe, the hole might slow down play, etc.  I don’t think Mike Keiser would go for one, but maybe his sons will? 


I have done a couple.  The 12th at Sebonack is built to the same dimensions as the Postage Stamp green, although the client wanted more short grass around it.  And the 7th at Barnbougle was good enough to acquire a name of its own!

[archie_struthers]

 


Pretty hard to build unless it's quite a private club. Forced carries and all you know!


Unfortunate that "prevailing" ideas re: playability for all discourage holes like this

[Peter Pallotta]

For me, this is the best example of a case where many of those who 'know' actually don't know, and where conventional wisdom isn't smart at all. I can't think of a single average golfer (like me) who wouldn't love a golf hole like the Postage Stamp -- not because it's a template or an homage, but because it is 'golf' pure and simple: a small but reachable target literally surrounded by punishing hazards, providing both challenge and thrills. Anyone who is in love with the game would love a golf hole like that -- and I think would even make allowances for the green being a little rough at times. Average golfers are smarter -- and certainly more accommodating -- than many of the cognoscenti give them credit for. (I think the latter often unconsciously project their own rather limited tastes and need for 'fairness' and definition of 'fun' onto the latter, using the average golfer as an excuse not to do something they had no intention of doing in the first place.)

[Dan_Callahan]

Don’t know if it was modeled after the Postage Stamp, but the 12th hole at the Country Club has a similar feel to it.

[Tom_Doak]

Don’t know if it was modeled after the Postage Stamp, but the 12th hole at the Country Club has a similar feel to it.

I think that's a Flynn hole, and I don't think he ever went to Scotland.  But many of the greens at Brookline are tiny.

[Bill Gayne]

The hole that most and best resembled the postage stamp to me was a hole on the Ballyneal mulligan course. Going from memory and the Ballyneal website the third hole and not sure if it was designed with the postage stamp in mind but that's what I thought of after playing the hole.

[Jerry Kluger]

Would the postage stamp hole work with nice calm weather and a receptive green? 

[Garland Bayley]

Because C B MacDonald didn't use it to built golf holes.

Let's talk design patterns. Building a short par 3 with a small green surrounded by bunkers has probably been done enough that it could be classified as a design pattern. Because after all if something works well it is repeated and becomes a design pattern

[JJShanley]

Tom,


The 6th at Renaissance reminded me of the Postage Stamp. Perhaps not as severe a fall off on the sides, and a more interesting green.

[Ben Stephens]

Northwick Park has a Postage Stamp template hole

[Jeff Schley]

Even some greens which have sections like the postage stamp to put a pin, like the short 12th at Whistling Staits are fun and iconic. When they put the flag back there with any wind it is a joy to watch who can carve a shot in there or punch a low one etc.

I wish there were more, but see it as an add on to a green complex for a pin position once a week perhaps. Not a bad compromise as the wear and tear on a small green that is penal with sand blasting onto it each day would be tough to maintain and slow pace.

[Jeff Schley]

Also I thought of the par 3 at Kingston Heath, which I looked up as the 15th which is small with bunker surrounding.



Also at KH they have the new 19th which is quite fascinating looking designed by OCCM, and new!

I forgot that Kingston Heath is doing their own short course.  Love this shared green rendering. Clearly they are quite ahead of most clubs with their par 3's with relatively small greens and the lovely Mackenzie bunker edging to boot.

[David_Tepper]

How about #11 a Castle Stuart?

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,


The 6th at Renaissance reminded me of the Postage Stamp. Perhaps not as severe a fall off on the sides, and a more interesting green.

Yes, I forgot that, but it was kind of modeled on the Postage Stamp.

The hole that most and best resembled the postage stamp to me was a hole on the Ballyneal mulligan course. Going from memory and the Ballyneal website the third hole and not sure if it was designed with the postage stamp in mind but that's what I thought of after playing the hole.

There are a couple of holes on the Mulligan you could be thinking of, but definitely not the 3rd.  I'd say the 9th hole is probably the most like the Postage Stamp.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I'm not sure the postage stamp needs to be a template but every course should have a short par three. Most C&C courses I have played do and there are some brilliant holes on many golden age courses. Most allow for a birdie but will punish a mediocre shot.

[Jordan Standefer]

The hole that most and best resembled the postage stamp to me was a hole on the Ballyneal mulligan course. Going from memory and the Ballyneal website the third hole and not sure if it was designed with the postage stamp in mind but that's what I thought of after playing the hole.

I think I was a hole too late, Bill.

[Anthony Gray]

 Any photos of 13th at Kingsbarns?  This may be the best example,of a template as opposed to a replica.

[Tom_Doak]

I forgot that Kingston Heath is doing their own short course.  Love this shared green rendering. Clearly they are quite ahead of most clubs with their par 3's with relatively small greens and the lovely Mackenzie bunker edging to boot.

Kinda off topic, but where does Kingston Heath have room to build a short course?  They barely had enough property for 18 holes!

[Ronald Montesano]

13th at Merion East. Great short par three. Wide green, rather than long, but still a devil to hit in one.

[Jeff_Brauer]

To answer the question from a historical standpoint, they probably aren't practical at higher play courses.  Too many ball marks, not enough pin rotations, too hard for average golfers, slow play down, etc., etc., etc.  If you consider the old "form follows function" in design, rather than copying something else, the postage stamp rarely comes out as the best design solution.

[Garland Bayley]

Thought maybe Jeff would post it, but 16 at North West Golf Club in Donegal would meet the design pattern.

[Mark_Fine]

Surely the small green size and the fact that many golfers would struggle to finish the hole without picking up.  In some ways a bit like #11 at Shinnecock with three deep bunkers right, super small target, always wind and no safe bailout.  I think Troon has two bunkers left and #11 just one but not 100% sure.  You can miss long left on #11 but no fun over there either. 


And you are right Tom, Flynn never made it to Scotland or even to anywhere across the pond. 

[Jeff Schley]

I forgot that Kingston Heath is doing their own short course.  Love this shared green rendering. Clearly they are quite ahead of most clubs with their par 3's with relatively small greens and the lovely Mackenzie bunker edging to boot.

Kinda off topic, but where does Kingston Heath have room to build a short course?  They barely had enough property for 18 holes!

It looks like to the east on adjacent property the club owns.

https://www.ocm.golf/short-course-kingston-heath/

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()