A Whole Lot of Great Holes

[Ira Fishman]

In the thread about the redan at NB, in less than 20 posts somewhere around 14 holes were nominated as the best hole on the course. I think only 5-8 were not nominated.


What other course would garner so many "best hole" nominations in so few posts?


I might bet on PH2, but not sure that is a good bet.


Ira

[Matt_Cohn]

Prairie Dunes immediately came to mind for me. I can only think of maybe 5 holes that are very obviously not the best hole on the course.

[Anthony Gray]

 Nice thread Ira,


 Of course Cruden Bay. I think variety is a key to this question.


 Pacific Dunes has wonderful variety. Half pars. Short par 4s with poison at the head. What’s the favorite hole there? Many varied opinions.


 Royal County Down has variety but many will pick 9.


 Diamanté has wonderful options. I don’t think one hole would dominate.


 TOC but 17 would be chosen buy over half I assume.


 Maybe north Berwick would be the winner of this contest.


 Oh…. NGLA the sacred cow. Which template works the best?


Anthony

[MCirba]

Pine Valley has 17 great holes and 1 really good hole.

[Michael Felton]

Pine Valley has 17 great holes and 1 really good hole.

11?


PV and NGLA sprung to my mind. Both are littered with great holes.

[Peter Pallotta]

Ira, really good thread idea and excellent way to re-ask one of the perennial questions.
I can only sit back and read the answers/posts, which all should be in green font so as to match my envy.
But I will say: I've always suspected what Matt C says (and suggests, by implication) about Prairie Dunes.
I think if B Darwin was around today, living in the US, he might call Prairie Dunes the course that his soul loves best.

[Tim_Weiman]

In the thread about the redan at NB, in less than 20 posts somewhere around 14 holes were nominated as the best hole on the course. I think only 5-8 were not nominated.


What other course would garner so many "best hole" nominations in so few posts?


I might bet on PH2, but not sure that is a good bet.


Ira

IRA,


It has been a long time since I played Pinehurst #2, but from memory I would not nominate this course. Hole #5 just really stood out for me with Hole #2 an honorable mention.

[Ronald Montesano]

Let me tackle the premise, before I offer nominations.


Premise
Which course has a noteworthy hole, that might actually not be the best hole on a course littered with others that, upon reflection, are stone-cold, borderline legendary, golf holes? The only holes under consideration are holes on that course, not to be contrasted/compared with holes on other courses. Some pundits might chime in with That course's holes aren't as great as that other course's holes and this would be a plausible, if not relevant, point for consideration.


In addition, the number of posts to reach this pinnacle matters, as proposed by the author.


For me, the key is identifying courses that have the original version of a hole thought to be iconic and good, and then cull the ones that don't have 12-15 other holes that top the iconic one for best-hole-on-course stature.


Conundrum
As good as #16 is at Cypress Point, is it installed elsewhere? No.
As good as Redan North Berwick is, is it installed elsewhere? Yes, with different flavors, to boot. Some drop, some climb, some move leftward, some move rightward.


The second part, the number of posts, demands a healthy population to have played the courses. I've not played NB, nor PD, nor PV, so I would not advance off the touch line on those three. I have played some top-shelf courses, and I would volunteer that NGLA also has 17 great holes and one very good hole, with the very good hole being Eden. Did nothing for me, visually nor strategically.


Resolution
The time-honored tradition of Which mood holds me hostage delivers the answer. What makes a hole great and who makes a great hole are two questions that I ask myself. Elements of golf course architecture, topography, and nature, conspire to create an unforgettable, unmatchable golf hole. The 13th at Merion East becomes greater for one who ages, as its wee length never takes 1, 2, or 3 out of play.


Nominations
 
I'm going to put Sleepy Hollow (NY) as my first private USA nomination. I'm going to put Eastward Ho! as my second private USA nomination.


I'm going to put Pasatiempo as my first public USA nomination. I'm going to put Tobacco Road as my second public USA nomination.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

 Nice thread Ira,


 Of course Cruden Bay. I think variety is a key to this question.


 Pacific Dunes has wonderful variety. Half pars. Short par 4s with poison at the head. What’s the favorite hole there? Many varied opinions.


 Royal County Down has variety but many will pick 9.


 Diamanté has wonderful options. I don’t think one hole would dominate.


 TOC but 17 would be chosen buy over half I assume.


 Maybe north Berwick would be the winner of this contest.


 Oh…. NGLA the sacred cow. Which template works the best?


Anthony

Diamante was going to be my answer as well, as I think it has 6 world class and specatcular holes.
And two more in my head that would make it even better

[Anthony Gray]

In the thread about the redan at NB, in less than 20 posts somewhere around 14 holes were nominated as the best hole on the course. I think only 5-8 were not nominated.


What other course would garner so many "best hole" nominations in so few posts?


I might bet on PH2, but not sure that is a good bet.


Ira

IRA,


It has been a long time since I played Pinehurst #2, but from memory I would not nominate this course. Hole #5 just really stood out for me with Hole #2 an honorable mention.

 I would definitely agree with this. I think 9 has a wow factor.

[Anthony Gray]

Let me tackle the premise, before I offer nominations.


Premise
Which course has a noteworthy hole, that might actually not be the best hole on a course littered with others that, upon reflection, are stone-cold, borderline legendary, golf holes? The only holes under consideration are holes on that course, not to be contrasted/compared with holes on other courses. Some pundits might chime in with That course's holes aren't as great as that other course's holes and this would be a plausible, if not relevant, point for consideration.


In addition, the number of posts to reach this pinnacle matters, as proposed by the author.


For me, the key is identifying courses that have the original version of a hole thought to be iconic and good, and then cull the ones that don't have 12-15 other holes that top the iconic one for best-hole-on-course stature.


Conundrum
As good as #16 is at Cypress Point, is it installed elsewhere? No.
As good as Redan North Berwick is, is it installed elsewhere? Yes, with different flavors, to boot. Some drop, some climb, some move leftward, some move rightward.


The second part, the number of posts, demands a healthy population to have played the courses. I've not played NB, nor PD, nor PV, so I would not advance off the touch line on those three. I have played some top-shelf courses, and I would volunteer that NGLA also has 17 great holes and one very good hole, with the very good hole being Eden. Did nothing for me, visually nor strategically.


Resolution
The time-honored tradition of Which mood holds me hostage delivers the answer. What makes a hole great and who makes a great hole are two questions that I ask myself. Elements of golf course architecture, topography, and nature, conspire to create an unforgettable, unmatchable golf hole. The 13th at Merion East becomes greater for one who ages, as its wee length never takes 1, 2, or 3 out of play.


Nominations
 
I'm going to put Sleepy Hollow (NY) as my first private USA nomination. I'm going to put Eastward Ho! as my second private USA nomination.


I'm going to put Pasatiempo as my first public USA nomination. I'm going to put Tobacco Road as my second public USA nomination.

 At Cypress I’m thinking 16 would be the best hole for 76% of golfers.