Pelham Country Club

[Frank Pasquale]

Just got to "walk" this course prior to next week's US Open local qualifying round.  Very tricky, but looks like a lot of fun.  Since I did not get to hit any shots, yardages will be tough to gauge.  Can anyone tell me how the five par 3's play?  Long, short, etc...

Thanks,
Frank

[Tim Weiman]

Frank,

I'm stunned to find mention of Pelham as I grew up a couple blocks away and recently went back for a visit.

As for the Par 3's:

#2, #5, #8 and old #14 all play downhill and I'd say all but #2 seemed to play short.  Of course, any 200 yard hole plays damn long when you are about 8 years old!

#18 is a different matter.  Though it includes a forced carry over water, the parking lot lurking behind always seemed like more of a danger.  Years ago young kids really weren't welcome, but you were tolerated as long as you moved along and avoided breaking any car windshields.

Not that many people know that Pelham was once the host for the PGA Championship.  About a year ago Tom Doak was kind enough to show me around Lost Dunes which among its other features, has a highway running through it.

So, I mentioned to Tom that I grew up on a course that held a major championship, now has a highway running through and isn't Oakmont.

Tom thought for a couple seconds and said "Pelham Country Club".  Granted Tom grew up not far from Pelham, but that was still pretty impressive in my book.

You are right.  Pelham is a quirky little course and testimony, I think, to how little sense the golf technology arms race makes.

[Frank Pasquale]

Yes, Tim, part of the charm, if you will, was walking under I-95!  I play Bethpage Black quite a bit, and I am used to walking across Round Swamp Road, but the walk under I-95 at Pelham is much different.

But overall, Pelham seems like a thinking man's course.

[alabama redneck]

Do you mean Pelham, Alabama?  Just kidding

[GeoffreyC]

I've played Pelham CC a number of times but not for several years.  It's a quirky Dev. Emmet design which I believe incorporates a few newer holes since the highway was built.

#5 plays way downhill- at least 2 clubs.

#10 is a flat short par 3 of about 130 yards or so - same with #8

#18 is a mid length par 3 over the pond (Tim - they must have changed the course - #17 is a longish dogleg right with the parking lot on the right - good hole with a tough multi tiered green.

Of the par 5's, the third hole is probably the best.  It is a long slight dogleg left with a hazard along the left off the tee.  It plays somewhat uphill to a fairly large sloped green. Keep it in play and it should not be a problem.

THe 11th on the other hand is a pooly conceived hole where you  can (could- I have not been there in an while) hit a good drive in the left half of the fairway and have to play a short iron 2nd shot over a huge willow tree that blocks the approach.  

I believe the 15'th is the last par 5.  It is guarded right at the green by a ditch filled with water so going for the green in two requires a full carry to the green.

The first hole is a cute 465 yarder that was a par 5 on the card.  It occupies some of the best land on the course so you are unlikely to have a level lie and stance for the second shot.

In the past, the course was lush and over watered so it played longer then the card yardage on the 4's and 5's.  

On the dogleg left (90 degree) par 4 13th, you need to layup off the tee to keep from running through the fairway.  This will leave from 180-200 yards into the green.  If you try for anything more you will have tree trouble with anything but a perfectly shaped shot of the correct distance.

On #4, a shot par 4 you need to decide if you want to layup short of the cross bunker with a mid iron (leaving a blind second) or blow it over to leave a flip wedge.  In this case, I'd recommend going over the cross bunkers as this is a good birdie opportunity.

The ninth is a great driving hole.  Its blind over a huge rock outcropping.  Don't go left!

Hope this helps and let me know if you have any more specific questions.

[Tim Weiman]

GeoffreyC:

Regarding #18, you are both right and wrong.  The hole was changed, but quite a long time ago (circa 1950's, I believe).

The new 18th is the mid length shot over the pond you mentioned.  But, the parking lot is directly between it, no more than one club's worth.

So, it was tough as a little kid.  You were afraid of not clearing the pond, but equally worried about breaking someone's windshield.  Keep in mind that we didn't have a big supply of golf balls, so it was quite a dilemma!

Of late, I think there are more bushes which obscure the cars, but nothing else has changed about the area around the green.  Last fall, however, it looked like they were re-building and lengthening the tee maybe 5-10 yards.

I also noticed a few other changes.  The sequence of the holes on the back nine has changed, something nobody in the pro shop had been around long enough to even know.  Also, the development around holes #4 and #5 has changed their visual appearance.

Finally, Stephen Kay did some consulting work their a few years back.  The only major change I saw ws the green complex on #7.  He added contour to what was a fairly flat green and built some mounds to make the green partially blind.

I'm glad you mentioned the par 5 #3 because I share your liking for that hole (whose green sits right below where Jack Whitaker used to live).

The ninth is indeed a tough driving hole.  I'd say both left and right are bad.  You really need to be straight.

As for #4, I believe it is a text book example to illustrate the difference between relative and absolute length.  The club built a new back tee to preserve the challenge I enjoyed so much 35 years ago.  But, is it what a guy like Ron Whitten calls "progress"?  Not in my book.

[Frank Pasquale]

Geoffrey,
Seems like you remember the course very well.  On #4, it looked like laying up with a 5 iron(?) short of the bunkers was really the only option.  If you hit a driver or three wood over the bunkers, does the ball even stay up, or roll back into the rough?  The fairway is severly uphill, which you know.

[Tim Weiman]

Frank,

I haven't played Pelham in thirty years but I still remember #4 vividly.

If you skills are good enough to be playing in a Qualifier, I'd probably recommend trying to hit up the hill. I remember watching Bob Caffray, a club champion type in the 1960's, hit up there all the time.

Since they built the new back tee I'm not sure of the distance issue, but I do remember straight shots staying up.  It's not easy, but as Geoffrey said, it does set up a birdie opportunity.

By contrast, laying up leaves a blind shot that always seemed tough just to get on the green.

Good Luck!

[GeoffreyC]

Frank

I have not seen any new tee on #4 so I can't tell you what the carry is at this time.  However,  it was about a four or five iron layup short of the bunkers from the previous back tee.  As Tim described it leaves a totally blind shot.  Even back then it wasn't an impossible carry with a driver but the risks were greater.  With today's equipment I can't believe its not a good option.

I've seen people play over the bunkers successfully.  If conditions are as soft as they used to be this makes the shot much easier.  Firm and fast, it's a more difficult task to hold the fairway. For players of the caliber in a US Open qualifier I think its worth the risk for a real birdie opportunity.

Quick story-  First time I played Pelham CC was in a High School tournament in a hard rainstorm.  It was pouring rain, cold and windy.  I was happy to break 100 under those conditions.  When I got in and looked at the board, I saw that Claude Harmon's son won the event with 18 pars!  I think it was Butch's younger brother (Billy?). I'm glad I kept up my studies as I had no future in golf! (playing anyway)

[Frank Pasquale]

Geoffrey,
That is some playing!  18 pars in those conditions at any age, let alone a high schooler.

Thanks to you and Tim for your advice.

Best wishes!

[Jeff Schley]

OK this is probably one of the oldest threads to be brought back to life. I couldn't find anything else discussing Pelham CC.  I wanted to see if someone could help explain this routing as I can't find a comprehensive course routing. I see Mike Devries recently completed some rerouting of some holes. I can't make sense of this photo here. Is this a double green I assume?

Here is another angle.
I saw where MD had to capture some irrigation storage and work within the same footprint. Sounds like very tough soil to deal with on this flat site. Any insights from Tim or others is appreciated.

[Anthony_Nysse]

There is another hole in the bottom on that photo with a tee box. If the photo was a little bigger, you'd see all the tee boxes.  The combined fairway to 2 different holes.


Pelham Country Club - Google Maps

[V. Kmetz]

The bottom photo is the one to reference.... this aerial view looking to the South (xSW)


A. the sliver of fairway in the bottom left/center is the 3rd hole, which proceeds out of the photo to the left...
B. the left-most green is the 16th...after this hole you proceed to the path heading right (in this photo), back under the 1-95/MTA tunnel to the 17th tee, which would be another 100 yards to the bottom right of this photo's margins
C. to its right (in this photo) is the 11th green
D. the hole going due South along the MTA tracks/1-95, into the distance, is the 12th hole

[Jeff Schley]

Thanks Guys. I think I got it. It looked so unique as a double green concept. Haven't been, but was thinking hey QUIRK!

[Stewart Abramson]

Sounds like very tough soil to deal with on this flat site. Any insights from Tim or others is appreciated.

The holes in the photos you attached are flat, but the course has lots of significant elevation movement. I haven't played it since the Mike Devires work, but IIRC, 1,2,4,5,6,9 and 14 (in the  routing I played) were pretty hilly.


Here's a link to photos from 2009 : https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157631840256453

[Tim_Weiman]

OK this is probably one of the oldest threads to be brought back to life. I couldn't find anything else discussing Pelham CC.  I wanted to see if someone could help explain this routing as I can't find a comprehensive course routing. I see Mike Devries recently completed some rerouting of some holes. I can't make sense of this photo here. Is this a double green I assume?

Here is another angle.
I saw where MD had to capture some irrigation storage and work within the same footprint. Sounds like very tough soil to deal with on this flat site. Any insights from Tim or others is appreciated.

Jeff,


I am aware that Mike DeVries did some work at Pelham Country Club but have not seen it. I also wonder why the work in the pictures you provided was done.


What was the goal? Why did anyone think it was necessary?


To me, Pelham Country Club was an essay on how technology hasn’t really improved the game. IMO, such sites should be left alone……no offense to Mike intended.

[SPDB]

The bottom photo is the one to reference.... this aerial view looking to the South (xSW)


A. the sliver of fairway in the bottom left/center is the 3rd hole, which proceeds out of the photo to the left...
B. the left-most green is the 16th...after this hole you proceed to the path heading right (in this photo), back under the 1-95/MTA tunnel to the 17th tee, which would be another 100 yards to the bottom right of this photo's margins
C. to its right (in this photo) is the 11th green
D. the hole going due South along the MTA tracks/1-95, into the distance, is the 12th hole

The above requires some correction:


A. This is the 13th hole, not the 3rd
B. This is the 12th green, not the 16th
C. This is the 16th green, not the the 11th
D. This is the 3rd hole, not the 12th