[John Kavanaugh]

My best start ever went 3,4,2,3,4.  My best finish was 3,3,3. Once in a team event I finished 2,2.

[Sean_A]

My best start ever went 3,4,2,3,4.  My best finish was 3,3,3. Once in a team event I finished 2,2.

Well done.

Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

Oddly enough the only story with a par is the one I paint by numbers.

[Bill Seitz]

Wasn’t it the Warren Course st Notre Dame that opened with no par assigned to any of the holes? And very quickly they brought C&C back to change that because people couldn’t deal.

Did they really need bring the architects back to tell them which holes were par 3s, 4s, and 5s?  I'm pretty sure if you gave most of us here a scorecard with no par assigned, any one of us could fill it out in about 90 seconds.

[Tim Gallant]

All that said, Matthew’s suggestion of leaving Par off the scorecard is one I’ve always liked… But leaving the index off rules out Matchplay as well. How about having a Par and an Index but leaving out the yardage?

Ally,


I think it's interesting to leave the index off at a private course - members will know the course more intimately, and it adds in an element of strategy about where they take their shots. Not sure I would do it at most places, but maybe one or two - particularly if there's no par.

[Ken Fry]

Wasn’t it the Warren Course st Notre Dame that opened with no par assigned to any of the holes? And very quickly they brought C&C back to change that because people couldn’t deal.

Did they really need bring the architects back to tell them which holes were par 3s, 4s, and 5s?  I'm pretty sure if you gave most of us here a scorecard with no par assigned, any one of us could fill it out in about 90 seconds.

The architects weren't brought back in.  We just printed out new scorecards.  As I mentioned before, it really surprised me how some people got so upset over the whole concept.
Ken

[JESII]

Because more than anything else, golf is an emotional sport.


The landscape itself elicits emotion and the playing should result in swings of emotion as well. Do any other sports allow the time for emotion to develop the way nerves or joy or poise or fun develop relating to golf?


One of those emotions is aspiration. How much you want something. You want to make a par. You desperately don't want to make double bogey.


What would you do to achieve it? Would you take on a little more risk on a second shot after a mediocre drive? Par is the benchmark against which those goals are measured. The architect holds that card in that they can tempt the player to reach a little farther than might be advised if they're trying to achieve something.

[Anthony Gray]

 Par dictates how you play some holes.


 The Road Hole as a 5 you may lay up, as a 4 you will challenge the bunker and the road.

[Ally Mcintosh]

All that said, Matthew’s suggestion of leaving Par off the scorecard is one I’ve always liked… But leaving the index off rules out Matchplay as well. How about having a Par and an Index but leaving out the yardage?

Ally,


I think it's interesting to leave the index off at a private course - members will know the course more intimately, and it adds in an element of strategy about where they take their shots. Not sure I would do it at most places, but maybe one or two - particularly if there's no par.

Good point, Tim… if you are allowed to choose where to take shots, then that might work well. But handicaps would have to allow for a fact that someone with 10 shots ain’t gonna leave 3 of them for 16,17,18… suspect they’ll all be taken in first 12 holes.

[JESII]

In a head to head match?


If you're giving me 10 shots, I will absolutely back load them.

[Ken Moum]

Level 4s is basically another name par for score keeping.

Ciao

Of course. I was just pointing out that basing Stableford scoring on level fours and allocating strokes purely based on yardage would be a reasonable way to play Stableford


Elie already has 16 par fours ranging from ~250 to over 450, calling the other two par fours wouldn't be that much of a stretch.


And I have long believed that yardage is a more logical way to allocate strokes than the way most courses do it. With adjustments to avoid 1, 9, 10 and 18.

[Michael Moore]

Duncan is correct - other than providing a "delight" that golfers "love" and is the "highlight" of their round, par is "completely meaningless".

[Ally Mcintosh]

In a head to head match?


If you're giving me 10 shots, I will absolutely back load them.

Why? I’ll close you out 4&3… Could be missing something here you sound so sure!

[JESII]

So if I took my 10 shots on #'s 9-18 you figure you'd be 5 or 6 up after 8 and only lose a couple of those next 7 holes?


I don't think works out that way but only one real way to test it...lets go!

[Anthony Gray]

My best start ever went 3,4,2,3,4.  My best finish was 3,3,3. Once in a team event I finished 2,2.

 And you might have thought you could have done better which proves why higher handicappers have more fun.


 Par is an accomplishment for most golfers. Even bogey. So it’s nice having a day of accomplishments tied to a few failures. Without par what have you accomplished? Golf would be a driving range with cart girls, which will make you feel like a failure.


 Par helps you determine what club you hit off the tee and how aggressive you want to challenge the hazards. Without par it’s a day of layups and hazard avoidance. It’s a game for people that don’t take chances and are afraid to get divorced four times.


 Pars and birdies are uplifting and therapeutic for the soul.  I played with a nut once and he kept score in his head as it related to bogey. If you ask him how he played he would say I was 2 under bogey or 3 over Bogey. He loved the game.

[Peter Flory]

It eliminates the need for a scorecard.

That is a good point. 

[Peter Flory]

 Par dictates how you play some holes.


 The Road Hole as a 5 you may lay up, as a 4 you will challenge the bunker and the road.

How would you play it if they changed it to a par 3?

[Ally Mcintosh]

So if I took my 10 shots on #'s 9-18 you figure you'd be 5 or 6 up after 8 and only lose a couple of those next 7 holes?


I don't think works out that way but only one real way to test it...lets go!

If emotion is taken out of it, logic says you want to maximise your advantage by using all 10 shots. No point leaving 3 or 4 on the table? But you might be a hot starter! And I might be a choker when I start losing a few!

[Garland Bayley]

... I played with a nut once and he kept score in his head as it related to bogey. If you ask him how he played he would say I was 2 under bogey or 3 over Bogey. He loved the game.

I resent being called a nut!

And, you sure seem fixated on par for a guy who is too bored to putt out most holes.

Perhaps driving range golf is perfect for you. Is there a TopGolf near you?

[Rob Nydick]

 Par dictates how you play some holes.


 The Road Hole as a 5 you may lay up, as a 4 you will challenge the bunker and the road.

I agree with you that this is how the majority of golfers approach the game, but I believe this statement supports the fact that par lives more in people's heads than it does in the architecture of the golf course.  Golfers who are honest with their capabilities will avoid letting par dictate strategy.  If an intelligent player finds themselves with a low probability to execute a specific shot, they will adjust.  The unintelligent player will allow par to dictate their shot selection and runs a greater risk of mistakes and ultimately a higher score.


In short, I believe the intelligent golfer plays to reduce the number of strokes, not to achieve a predetermined score.  Unfortunately there are many golfers who prefer not to think strategically and the concept of par for them exacerbates their shortcomings. 

[Ken Moum]

In short, I believe the intelligent golfer plays to reduce the number of strokes, not to achieve a predetermined score.  Unfortunately there are many golfers who prefer not to think strategically and the concept of par for them exacerbates their shortcomings.

Don't know about  being an intelligent golfer, but as a short-hitting 15 hcp. I've decided there are only three holes on my home course that it makes sense for me to try to hit in regulation unless I hit an exceptional drive-or two shots on a long hole.


I still have to do some things VERY well to score in the 80s, but it's possible.

[Ken Fry]

Golf is a game of making the least amount of strokes at the ball possible, whether match play or stroke play.

For example, why would it really matter if a 490 yard hole was designated as a par 4 or a par 5?  You weigh the risk and reward off your own skill.  Either the risk for a possible lower stroke total or a safer play to avoid a larger stroke total.  Whether it's a par 4 or par 5 has NO bearing on anything but the space between your ears.

Hence why some people tend to lose their minds when you bring up whether some arbitrary number on a scorecard of what you should score for a particular hole creates more boundaries within the game to overcome.


Ken

[Mike_Young]

The only par that should really have significance is the total.  I look at it like a 1 foot ruler that begins at zero and ends at 12.  You have markings to determine various measurements in between and they only matter when they are the stopping point.  And that is for stroke play.  For match play...they don't.

[Dan Kelly]

I think PAR matters to everyone:


-- as a baseline for the pro


-- as an expectation for the stick


-- as a hope for the duffer


-- as a measuring stick for all

[Mark_Fine]

Par has been debated on this site for 20+ years and I think the same pros and cons always come up.  Some like it some don’t.  Honestly I think architects struggle with it as well.  If an architect was given a blank slate to work from (whether it speaks to them or not  ) what would they design if they had free reign?   My guess is they would be thinking about one shot holes two shot holes and three shot holes for various abilities of golfers.  They might even not put par on the scorecard but they would know what they designed. 


How would you keep track of who is leading during a medal play tournament without par?  Tiger has taken 32 shots and Brooks has taken 14 and Bubba 51.  Who is leading?


I think the mindset that should change is the number of one, two and three shot holes (call par what you want) in a championship golf course.

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