President's Cup - Links Course at Fancourt

[Carlyle Rood]

Did anyone catch the tournament this afternoon?  I watched the first four holes and the last two holes.  (Unfortunately, I overheard the score on the radio before I got back to the tape-delay broadcast.)

The U.S. was pounding the International team...and then they reached the the 17th tee.  I think the International team may have won the 17th and 18th holes in EVERY match played today.

U.S. 2 1/2
International 3 1/2

I thought the golf course yielded some exceptionally entertaining golf.  Davis Love III pitched in TWICE during the round.  The Americans sprayed shots into the native grasses on the last few holes.  Their recoveries were remarkable, though not enough.

The seventeenth hole was brutal.  They played into a nasty crosswind.  The green is fronted by a rock wall on the left that guards a (mostly dry) creek.  You can actually play out of the grasses, but you've got to be a few paces from the 6' rock wall.  Fred Funk tried to pitch over the wall onto the green, but instead hit a nasty line drive that ricocheted behind him.

Here is a link to some flyovers:
http://www.presidentscup.com/course/holebyhole.html

[A_Clay_Man]

I saw some of the tele. The course looked awesome. Options, options and the ground had that patina of brown. Scrumscious!  ANybody know anything about the course. Sheryl and I wondered for the longest time if it was near the coast cause the land sure did look like it. I'd be interested how much of those hillocks were manufactured.

[Carlyle Rood]

The course was designed by Gary Player.  It is in George, South Africa.  I'm not familiar enough with that region to know whether George is coastal or not.

That's just about all I know (so far).

[mikeyolympic]

the telecast said the Indian Ocean was about 6 miles away...

[Carlyle Rood]

Has anyone discovered any photos of this course?  I've only found a few, small photos from "artistic" perspectives.  Beyond the flyovers and the brief number of holes I've seen on television, I'd like to study some more useful photographs.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Carlyle,

Do a little homework!    Check page 2 for a thread with pics of every hole that was posted to earlier today....

[Gary_Smith]

Has anyone discovered any photos of this course?  I've only found a few, small photos from "artistic" perspectives.  Beyond the flyovers and the brief number of holes I've seen on television, I'd like to study some more useful photographs.

Carlyle,

There was a thread here on Fancourt earlier today that had some pictures of the course. It is now on the second page. Just look for Fancourt in the subject title.

It is nice to see some open minds being displayed about a Player course.

[Carlyle Rood]

It is nice to see some open minds being displayed about a Player course.

I wonder if people judged golf courses more critically and objectively twenty years ago simply because they were not familiar with who designed it.  The course simply stood on the merits of its design, rather than the portfolio of the designer.

[Matt Kardash]

adam,
the entire course was manufactured. It was dead flat before they began moving half the dirt in South Africa.

From what I could see on tv there were some things I liked and some things I didn't like. There was one hole that had water on both sides of the green, it was the hole that Johnny Miller called his favorite( I didn't care for it too much). Also the fairway contours on every hole seemed to have the same roller coaster (up and down) pattern. But I'm sititng here in Canada watching on tv, so what the hell do I know?

But overall it still looked interesting. I'd take this over most courses the pro's play.

[Carlyle Rood]

Carlyle,

Do a little homework!    Check page 2 for a thread with pics of every hole that was posted to earlier today....

Actually, I am doing my homework--literally.    I've been reading a forty-page treatise on the "Post-Earth Day Conundrum Translating Environmental Values" for class tomorrow morning.  Hence the scanning of Page One only of GCA.

These landscape architecture design theory readings are sucking the life out of me.  Educators have a habit of disguising an absence of original thought with big words.  

[Nigel_Walton]

I think the course looks positively awful. The humps, bumps and swales look obviously manufactured; The greens look overly severe.  Your Mr Doak's scale has something to do with how far one would drive to play a course, well, at the distance one would have to travel to play this one, I will give it a 0!

[Dan Herrmann]

It's no Bandon/Pacific Dunes!

[A_Clay_Man]

WHen we were watching it was magic time and the low light threw mystical shadows and an almost fuzzy look. I have always liked the look of rolling topography. It did seem a little odd that balls were bounding down the fairway but rarely seemed to leave it. ALmost like they were so undulated back and forth the result is hlaf pipe flat. Anybody been there to confirm or deny whether it's containment or movement?

[Dan Kelly]

Actually, I am doing my homework--literally.    I've been reading a forty-page treatise on the "Post-Earth Day Conundrum Translating Environmental Values" for class tomorrow morning.

Thanks for reminding me how grateful I am not to be anywhere near academe!

What in the hell does "Post-Earth Day Conundrum Translating Environmental Values" mean?

[Bob_Huntley]

Nigel,

Do tell, what enjoyment do you get from your golf? Where do you play that Fancourt registers so low on your scale? I realize that you added the caveat of 'distance to travel' to play the course, had a bearing on your views, but come on, a zero!

[ForkaB]

I've just watched an hour of the event, and I saw a wider variety of golf shots being hit (and being required to be hit) than at just about any other course I have seen the big boys play on over the past few years (including the "Major" venues).  No goofy golf included, either.  The course ain't that bad, and in fact may prove that Gary Player can design more than just a decent golf course.

[henrye]

I would agree with Rich.  From a television standpoint it makes for much more interesting golf than the weekly PGA events played over the US parkland style layouts.  The format is more entertaining, but the course is more interesting - not necessarily better.  This is a truly different course and while some may say manufactured or quirky, I think it looks like great fun.  Based on the TV and the photos, my type of course.

[cary lichtenstein]

I am here at the Presidents Cup at Fancourt which is in George, South Africa. George is about 4 hours from Cape Town, and very close to the Indian Ocean.

Gary Player did  a wonderful job in designing this golf course. I find it hard to believe it was dead flat before he started, but this is a wonderful test of golf.

It does not look manufactured at all, and i think there are challanges that abound. The driving areas are risk/reward well done with lots of fairly significant movements.

The par 5's are not reachable in 2 except 18, as all are guarded by water, or equivalent in front.

The greens complexes are very unusual, and very good. Lot's of devishly pin placements.

The only negative is that this course is very difficult to watch a tournament. Every hole is self contained with big sand mounds on all sides and slippery elephant grass.

This is the type of course, that if they would build it in Florida, even Matt Ward would like it!!!!!

[A_Clay_Man]

What's ironic is, in viewing the course it reminds me of one JM's. Eagle Ridge in Gilroy. The small sectioned greens and some of the rolling to the fairways coming to mind first.

[RJ_Daley]

I finally got a chance to see some of it yesterday.  I got the distinct impression that it was much like Whistling Straits, in that it is highly manufactured with plenty of humps and rolls in fairways, and the piled up containment between holes looks treacherous to walk.  Boab Huntley, do you think there are any Black or Green Mambo's about in those weeds?  I agree that it looks like an excellent venue requiring the big boys to hit a wide variety of challenging shots.  I don't know that I would want to play it much as I doubt I'd break 100 on it.  But, I wonder if Quasssi can tell us if there are well placed forward tees setting up a bit more player friendly on angles to LZs that make the greens more accessible for the average player?  

[cary lichtenstein]

The forward tees are fine, but remember, the greens are sectioned off, so unless you can hit and hold in the correct section, 3 putting is very possible. This is not a course where a bogey is a sure thing if you are comming in from 50 yards.

They chose lots of pin placements just over ridges where you need speed to get the ball to climb the ridges, and then it releases past the hole.

\you really have to hit a pretty bad shot to get in the elephant grass, but as you saw today, lots were there.

i think if there was a medal tournament here, you would see less of it. You just can't fire at all the pins here, e.g., 17 is like 12 at Augusta. With the pin in the back, you need to hit for the middle of the green depth wize where it is the widest.

Whistling Straits is a prettier course with LAKE michigan on neraly every hole and more forgiving off the tee.

This is definitely a good players course. The players I have spoken to, told me they get beat up real bad. I like the challenge, but I can see where they would not get many rounds.

It is a private course with about 30 members so far, about $100,000 dollars which is HUGE in South Africa.

[RJ_Daley]

Cary, thanks for the great on-site reports.  Are you there with your wife whom you describe as a very good player. Have you folks had a chance during your trip to give the golf course there at Fancourt a go?  I am still watching the Saturday telecast in progress and am thoroughly enjoying it.  Manufactured or not, it is an excellent venue for this event, IMHO.  What other courses in that region have you seen?

[cary lichtenstein]

We have not played any golf here in South Africa except at Sun City, where we got rained out on the 2nd hole. We went on a couple of Safrai's, lions, monkey's, girafees, buffalo, warthogs, wildbests, occansional leopard, elephants, etc.,  the usual Africian tourist thing. They were fun and got lots of pictures.

We wanted to play Durban, but it was too far out of the way.

The opening ceremonies here were neat, sort of like the Olympics. Nelson Mandela was there.

Unemployment in South Africa is 40%. Lots of poverty here. Sort of like a 3rd world nation in an emerging nation. Many parts are very depressing.

South Africa is significantly behind the times. They run your credit cards by hand, no Walmarts here, just 20 foot local merchants.Internet is terrible. Road are very dangerous.

Our only desire for a return trip would be to see the Serengity, but we may pick that up on the nature channel.

The area where Fancourt is located is called the garden, and it stretchs for about 40 miles. It is a coastal strip, with mountains on one side of the road, and a whole eco region of lush vegestation and lakes. On the other side is the Indian Ocean, and masive sand dunes.

Yesterday there were significant forest fires.

[TEPaul]

I only watched a few holes on Friday. It's hard to tell on TV if the course looks completely manufactured and out of place in its overall site but I did like the rolls on a few of those fairways I saw and I liked how one green (maybe #17) sort of shed balls off the surface that weren't as precise as they should've been.

And finally that shot Goosen hit on the last hole off a hanging lie running the ball along, through and around a bunch of caroming fairway contours and up onto a contoured putting surface that brought the ball way around to the back pin was frankly awesome. If a golf hole can offer a ground game shot option that unique I'm all for it and the design.

The course looked like it had its ideal maintenance meld for that tournament with aerial and ground options in virtual balance! It produced a lot of exciting golf shots and that says a lot about a golf course despite what it may look like as to it manufacturing and aesthetic.

[cary lichtenstein]

Today was the last day of the Presidents Cup, and for those of you who missed it, it was quite and exciting tournament.

I think the architecture of the course lent itself toward creating that excitement, and congrads go to Players and the super for doing such as good job.

South Africans treated us warmly, and they couldn't have been nicer