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Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2021, 04:35:10 PM »
I visited Forest Dunes and the loop last summer and found it to be one of the most interesting and creative examples of golf course architecture that I had seen in a long time. I think it's a really difficult idea to execute that Tom made look really simple.


I've been thinking back on this comment and the course for a few days and think this really sums up the Loop.  I almost think that it was executed so well, that maybe some people aren't giving it quite the credit it deserves because it came off so well. 


I kind of feel like 5B/13R and 9B/9R really exemplifies that too.  It seems like they nearly come in at the same direction.  The green works well for both of them, but I can't imagine how difficult it was to not come in nearly opposite on every hole. 


For some examples of holes I liked both directions:
4B/14R,  5B/13R, 7B/11R!, 12B/6R


Some that I loved from one direction and not the other :
6B (loved)/12R (didn't love but that may change with more plays)
13B (didn't love)/6R (loved it)



Josh, I agree with your and Bill's comment that Tom and his team made the Loop's difficult design concept look simple.  I think he has said elsewhere that designing holes that approach from opposite directions, 180 degrees, would have been easier--out and in and easily reversible like the Old Course.  The Loop has greens that anchor holes approaching from ~180, ~90, and--thinking back to 10th grade geometry--some acute and obtuse angles. 


I think 9 is the only hole that basically has an approach ~from a single direction for both holes.  5B/13R serves a slightly uphill par three, 5B, that plays ~from North-South, and 13R is a par 5 that plays ~from East-West over flattish ground to an elevated green surface with a backstop that covers almost all of the width of a wide green.  That's a great green, really fun to play from both directions.


+1 on your choices of holes you liked. 

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2021, 01:09:12 PM »
 8)  Interesting to see the Fore Play guys piece on the Loop.  Flying into Traverse City is one of the most expensive airline tickets in USA... but best place to come in/out.  Wonder where else they checked out, if any??


https://youtu.be/3Z_ghPVTpsk



Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2021, 03:28:57 PM »
8)  Interesting to see the Fore Play guys piece on the Loop.  Flying into Traverse City is one of the most expensive airline tickets in USA... but best place to come in/out.  Wonder where else they checked out, if any??



Traverse City isn't the most expensive place to fly to [maybe this summer it's up there, though].  But of note, Forest Dunes is just three hours straight up I-75 from Detroit Metro Airport, substantially less than any of the other "up north" courses.


Also worth noting that the NLU crew were in the area recently, too.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2021, 09:23:40 AM »
 8)  TD


not going to argue with you about the cost of plane rides over the last 40 years with and without Cherry & Film Festivals, this year costs are certainly skewed, as are car rental prices, but lodging in TC has always been very expensive, but seems like a lot more vacancy signs lit up this year than past... FD lodging has always been reasonable


a former native Mich buddy annually flies back to get up to the 45th parallel through Flint as well as DTW



Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2021, 11:19:23 AM »
If you are travelling to the Traverse area, Grand Rapids is only 2 hours from there, about half the driving time from DTW. I did that for many years. It isn't worth the difference to Forest Dunes, however.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2021, 12:31:42 PM »
8)  TD


not going to argue with you about the cost of plane rides over the last 40 years with and without Cherry & Film Festivals, this year costs are certainly skewed, as are car rental prices, but lodging in TC has always been very expensive, but seems like a lot more vacancy signs lit up this year than past... FD lodging has always been reasonable


a former native Mich buddy annually flies back to get up to the 45th parallel through Flint as well as DTW


Possibly it's more expensive to fly into here and back out, than the other way around?  I know that was the case in New Zealand, but part of Air New Zealand's mission is to subsidize travel costs for NZ residents; Delta Air Lines has no such mission on behalf of Traverse City!

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2021, 07:25:52 PM »
It seems I do not have Golf Digest rater taste.


Forest Dunes GC is rated 33rd in their top 100 public list, one spot below Pinehurst #4.
Loop (Black)  is rated 59th,  one notch below Paako Ridge.
Loop (Red) is rated 78th, near Pinehurst #8, Great Waters, Red Sky and Firestone South

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2021, 07:31:43 PM »
It seems I do not have Golf Digest rater taste.


Forest Dunes GC is rated 33rd in their top 100 public list, one spot below Pinehurst #4.
Loop (Black)  is rated 59th,  one notch below Paako Ridge.
Loop (Red) is rated 78th, near Pinehurst #8, Great Waters, Red Sky and Firestone South




The Loop, more than any course I've done, does not fit my perception of what the typical "GOLF DIGEST rater" looks for in a course.  I was surprised to see it rated so highly by them last time.  But I agree with you, Pete.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2024, 09:08:04 AM »
I spent four days at Forest Dunes last weekend and was very interested to see the Loop for the first time.  I was not sure how much I would like it given some somewhat muted commentary I have seen in the past.   


I really liked it although I am not sure how I would have reacted without playing a number of Tom Doak courses in the past.   It is probably the best example of short grass as a hazard course I have experienced in the US.   The greens are wacky but for the most part make sense.  There are catchers mitts that cradle the ball and ridges that repel them.  It is a bit of a guessing game the first time through but I found enough clues to have a decent idea what the green was asking of me.   The tee boxes work very well - you do not notice them when you are playing the opposite direction.  I assume the course is relatively efficient to maintain with few bunkers and teeing areas mowed as part of the fairway. 


I also enjoyed the original course.  Weiskopf had good interesting ideas he incorporated into his courses and the combination provides a nice contrast of good resort architecture before Bandon Dunes changed the formula and after.   

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2024, 11:11:42 AM »
I spent four days at Forest Dunes last weekend and was very interested to see the Loop for the first time.  I was not sure how much I would like it given some somewhat muted commentary I have seen in the past.   
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Jason:


How many times did you play in each direction?


I am going over on the 31st to play for the first time in The Dual, an event they do 3x per year where you play the course both ways around in the same day.  That's a lot of golf for me nowadays, but hopefully I'll be up to it.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2024, 04:29:37 PM »
I spent four days at Forest Dunes last weekend and was very interested to see the Loop for the first time.  I was not sure how much I would like it given some somewhat muted commentary I have seen in the past.   



Jason:


How many times did you play in each direction?


I am going over on the 31st to play for the first time in The Dual, an event they do 3x per year where you play the course both ways around in the same day.  That's a lot of golf for me nowadays, but hopefully I'll be up to it.


Tom - I played just once in both directions.  We had 32 people and many others played it twice.  My enthusiasm for 36 hole days isn’t what it once was. 

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2024, 04:35:27 PM »
Jason,


Here is another - detailed - thread that I started on The Loop. I think my feelings are pretty clear:


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,71300.0.html

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Loop @ Forest Dunes
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2024, 08:48:39 PM »
Jason,


Here is another - detailed - thread that I started on The Loop. I think my feelings are pretty clear:


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,71300.0.html


Thanks Ally.  Great thread!

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