Mike Keiser to buy World Woods?

[Andrew Harvie]

I hope they restore the Fazio and build additional courses, but I get the sense that won't happen.

[Jonathan Cummings]

The original concept was for the founding Asian company to build 5 golf courses and two theme-type park hotels as well as extensive housing.  Pretty remarkable that 25 years later the place remains basically frozen since the day it opened.


I heard a story once that early on Faz was so taken by the twin layouts that his annual outing for his firm (like Tom's Renaissance Cup) was held at WW - - which very much pissed off the folks at Black Diamond!

[SB]

Interesting.


For a group of people who consider it sacrilege to modify Golden Age courses, everyone is sure eager to take out the scalpel (or bulldozer) to something a little more recent.  Since WW was ranked in the top 100 for many years, it's not because of the quality of the course, but because of changing tastes. 


Will all of you be so eager to hack up the current favorites in 20 years when rugged bunkers are no longer in style and trees regain their popularity?

I don't think that the imperative to change the two courses would be as strong if they were had been built to be walkable.  Walkability is not just a changing taste, but one of the principal trademarks of the new ownership team, so that implies that changes will be necessary, and it's not solely about drawing renewed attention to the place.

Isn't that the justification everyone gives to carving up courses?  "Fast greens are one of the principal trademarks of this club, so we need to flatten them".  "Having a beautiful walk in the park is one of the principal trademarks of our club so we'll be planting 3,000 trees".  "Beauty is important to our board, so we'll be bringing in Ted Robinson to add waterfalls and landscaping".  "Making money is the goal of our ownership, so we'll be taking out half of the bunkers and adding housing along all of the fairways." 


Mind you, I'm an owner and I think I can do what I want, but I'm surprised I don't hear the "golf courses are works of art" folks crying when a Fazio gets threatened.

[Mike Feeney]

Looks like Cowan / Cabot
https://twitter.com/drewharvie/status/1475929960938409990?s=21

[Steve Kohler]

I wonder what is envisioned with Southern Woods and Sugarmill Woods?  Besides the proximity to World Woods, they appear to be typical Florida housing development courses.  A quick Google search didn't yield much info except the two courses were designed by Hale Irwin and Ron Garl.  Perhaps its easier/cheaper to mold those into something noteworthy than building additional courses on the excess land at WW.   

[Joe Hancock]

I wonder what is envisioned with Southern Woods and Sugarmill Woods?  Besides the proximity to World Woods, they appear to be typical Florida housing development courses.  A quick Google search didn't yield much info except the two courses were designed by Hale Irwin and Ron Garl.  Perhaps its easier/cheaper to mold those into something noteworthy than building additional courses on the excess land at WW.

It’s never easier, and rarely cheaper, to re-purpose an existing course, if you take initial land costs out of the equation. Cart path demolition and disposal, compromised drainage systems and antiquated irrigation systems that become problematic are far more expensive to deal with(correctly!) than most imagine.

[Joel_Stewart]

I wonder what is envisioned with Southern Woods and Sugarmill Woods?  Besides the proximity to World Woods, they appear to be typical Florida housing development courses.  A quick Google search didn't yield much info except the two courses were designed by Hale Irwin and Ron Garl.  Perhaps its easier/cheaper to mold those into something noteworthy than building additional courses on the excess land at WW.

The Hale Irwin course is decent but the Garl course was terrible. It's possible to give these courses to the home owners association.  I didn't see much synergy between these and World Woods.

[Jonathan Webb]

https://www.torontogolfnuts.com/forum/golf-discussion-forum/golf-courses/3486445-cabot-purchases-world-woods-among-others-in-florida

[David_Tepper]

A better link:

https://www.torontogolfnuts.com/forum/golf-discussion-forum/golf-courses/3486445-cabot-purchases-world-woods-among-others-in-florida

[Andrew Harvie]

A better link:

https://www.torontogolfnuts.com/forum/golf-discussion-forum/golf-courses/3486445-cabot-purchases-world-woods-among-others-in-florida

Nothing I haven't posted here. The official press embargo for the aquisition lifts on Monday, so maybe more news will come out.

[Amol Yajnik]

Goodbye World Woods, hello Cabot Citrus Farms: https://cabotcitrusfarms.com/?utm_content=193824521&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-149107150

[Jeff Schley]

Part of the "Cabot Collection" good marketing speak.  Wondering who is doing the renovations at the courses?  C&C I assume for at least 1 is typical.
The development will operate as World Woods in the near term and begin renovations in the spring of 2022. Cabot Citrus Farms will open in 2023 with world-class amenities including two revitalized 18-hole courses, a par-3 course, a new clubhouse and practice facilities with a putting course and driving range.

[Adam G]

BethpageBlackMetal on instagram posted a rumor that it would be C&C for pine barrens and DeVries for Rolling Oaks. Not sure if this is right.

[Jeff Schley]

BethpageBlackMetal on instagram posted a rumor that it would be C&C for pine barrens and DeVries for Rolling Oaks. Not sure if this is right.

You mean Darius Oliver's proxy?   

[Kalen Braley]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

[Tim Gavrich]

FWIW, here's my GolfPass piece on it. What stood out to me from chatting with Ben about it was that ease of walking will be a focus of the renovations: https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/articles/world-woods-golf-club-cabot-citrus-farms-ben-cowan-dewar-mike-keiser

[Rob Marshall]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

Back when it first opened you could get a nice 36 hole day for $100

[Tom_Doak]

BethpageBlackMetal on instagram posted a rumor that it would be C&C for pine barrens and DeVries for Rolling Oaks. Not sure if this is right.

Is that based on inside info or just wishful thinking?


Those weren't the names that the client mentioned to me, but maybe he's had a change of heart.

[Andrew Harvie]

BethpageBlackMetal on instagram posted a rumor that it would be C&C for pine barrens and DeVries for Rolling Oaks. Not sure if this is right.

Is that based on inside info or just wishful thinking?


Those weren't the names that the client mentioned to me, but maybe he's had a change of heart.

That was the original rumours swirling, but it is incorrect now.

[Carl Nichols]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

It's pretty far from Streamsong--probably more than 2 hours.

[Marty Bonnar]

Assuming the embargo is now over, it would be lovely if the esteemed BC-D might be up for updating us (as far as he might be able!)
F.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

It's pretty far from Streamsong--probably more than 2 hours.

That's true but you could stay in Tampa and be at either resort in about 1 1/4 hours.  Or stay a night or two at each resort for a golf trip.

[Kalen Braley]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

It's pretty far from Streamsong--probably more than 2 hours.

That's true but you could stay in Tampa and be at either resort in about 1 1/4 hours.  Or stay a night or two at each resort for a golf trip.

Exactly,

Using the "flying-in" standard, there could be a lot more who decide to spend say 2 days at each resort, instead of 3-4 at Streamsong. If I was betting on it in retrospect, I don't know if they would have bothered buying WW if Streamsong wasn't close enough to justify the purchase.

[Steve Lapper]

Seems like it could be a win, even if they do price out the modest income golfing crowd.  The names affiliated with the project alone could attract deeper pockets, especially coupled with a few days at Streamstrong.

It's pretty far from Streamsong--probably more than 2 hours.

That's true but you could stay in Tampa and be at either resort in about 1 1/4 hours.  Or stay a night or two at each resort for a golf trip.

Exactly,

Using the "flying-in" standard, there could be a lot more who decide to spend say 2 days at each resort, instead of 3-4 at Streamsong. If I was betting on it in retrospect, I don't know if they would have bothered buying WW if Streamsong wasn't close enough to justify the purchase.

With all due respect, I don't think the proximity to Streamsong made much, if any, difference.


This property was a perfect opportunity to pick two courses in need of major TLC, close to a major, attractive & growing MSA with a healthy option to build and sell/rent associated real estate. Ben & company are very smart and have an immensely valuable database asset to lever out on a domestic US footprint.


I think regardless of whomever they hire for course architecture, WW will be a success.

[David_Tepper]

https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/cabot-acquires-world-woods-and-plans-redevelopment