The best par 4s no one talks about

[Gib_Papazian]

Bogey,


The last line got me . . . . . I'm going to steal that one.


Another that comes to mind is a fairly new hole, Kyle's #7 at Cal Club . . . . actually #9 there is another sleeper - but one that keeps my interest in equal measure frustration and determination.


But as I write this, it popped into my head that Cal Club #7 has the same architectural *chi* as #6 at PV.


And Cal Club #9 has a strong whiff of #18 at Riviera.


I guess you can call both of them a sympathetic pastiche. If you're going to swipe a golden chalice, might as well steal it from Grace Cathedral.   


BTW, If you or anybody name better back-to-back Par-4s than #4 & #5 at Olympic Lake, please speak up.

[David Whitmer]

I really like the 9th at Double Eagle, north of Columbus and designed by Tom Weiskopf. It's a longish hole with a very wide fairway, with three bunkers dividing the fairway into two halves. There are more bunkers to the right of the fairway. If you choose to go left of the bunkers off the tee, you have more room but a longer shot in. Additionally, you have to go over two spectacle bunkers that hide the green, but are probably 40 yards short of the green.


If you choose to go right of the bunkers off the tee, it's a shorter route but you have to deal with a tighter landing area. The spectacle bunkers are not in play from there, and as a result a successful drive affords you an unobstructed look at the green. The green itself has some good movement to it.

[Ira Fishman]

On courses with which many here are familiar:


17 at Mid Pines does not get enough attention perhaps because it resides between the more dramatic 16th and 18th.


On a course with 16 good to great ones, 13 at Elie is a wonderful hole, particularly the green siting.


3 at Woking also seems unheralded.


On a course that perhaps fewer have played:


6 at Old White is a brilliant hole. One of couple non-template holes on the course. The green opens only from the right side of the fairway which cants right to left and is protected on the right by a bunker.


On a course that perhaps only I here have played (my home course--DS 3.5):


14 at Kenwood (Maryland not Ohio) is a really good par 4. Blind tee shot to a generous fairway but the optics off the tee can make it tough to get a confident line. Second shot is downhill to green where both approach area and green cant hard right to left/front. Almost any pin location presents difficult putts. No bunkers on the hole.


Ira

[Doug Wright]

Number 7 at Wellshire GC, Denver. Brilliant Donald Ross design--tee shot slightly uphill over a valley to a hilltop then turns left for a midiron approach to a tiered green. Too short off the tee=blind second shot; too long=downhill lie. Purportedly one of Ben Hogan's favorite holes (Denver Open was held there in '40s-'50s).

[Tom_Doak]

Having just come back from Stone Eagle, I will go with the 2nd and 10th at Stone Eagle.


The 2nd plays over a gunsight rock off the tee, then sharply uphill to a green where the upper right is hidden by a hilltop full of bunkers, and the lower left side is visible from the fairway.  All of it is set against the background of the mountains immediately above the course.


The 10th tee shot plays between two round hills -- it could have been the Mae West hole if the name wasn't already taken -- only for the fairway to be centered on a ridge which falls sharply away to a lower valley on the right, a feature partly inspired by the 16th at NGLA.  Then the second shot plays further uphill to a green set in front of the mouth of a big valley that goes back into the mountain, which always reminded me of a landscape you might see in a dinosaur movie.


These might not be the two best par-4 holes at Stone Eagle, but they're great holes and both pretty much one of a kind.


Another VERY underrated par-4 is the 7th at Rock Creek Cattle Company -- seldom mentioned by others but it was the key to unlocking the routing, and there is not another hole like it that I've seen.

[Brent Carlson]

Chambers Bay has an excellent set of Par 4's.  #6 and #10 are two of my favorites.  For some reason they are rarely discussed.  Even after 100+ rounds they do not get old.

[Garland Bayley]

Chambers Bay has an excellent set of Par 4's.  #6 and #10 are two of my favorites.  For some reason they are rarely discussed.  Even after 100+ rounds they do not get old.

Ditto that, not to mention 12, and 14.

[jim_lewis]

I have never gotten anyone to agree, but I think the 14th hole is the best hole on Pinehurst #2. Most average players have trouble reaching the fairway bunker on the left which allows them to favor the left side of the fairway leaving a better angle to the green. The longer hitters have to play to the right side of the fairway, leaving a shorter shot but over the forward bunker which is several yards short of the green. The shorter hitter has an opportunity to run the ball onto the green left of the forward bunker. Bunkers left and right of the green are challenging, but long is dead into a steep drop off...too steep to putt up. The only shot is a flop to a green running away.


It is  a "pure" golf hole with multiple options and multiple challenges. The average player can make a par, but is more likely to make a double bogey. Bogey is not a bad score.

[Adam_Messix]

Jim,


It's nice to see your post.  Concur on your views re 14 on #2.


Dr. Greco and I are huge fans of 13 at Shinnecock Hills.  The way the fairway sits relative to the line of play off the tee and the way the green is situated relative to the fairway line is brilliant.  The green is thoughtful and tricky too.


In terms of a hole that you hear almost nothing about is 11 at Royal Melbourne East.  Drives down the right are handsomely rewarded with an open look and a deep green, while the further left you drift the shallower the green gets and the approach more demanding.   I wandered to the left center of the fairway one day to see Dr. Mollica's approach and my first thought was "that shot is incredibly difficult."

[Jerry Rossi]

One of the best par 4's on a course that nobody talks about is the par 4 8th hole - Punchbowl at Blue Mound G&CC.  The work Bruce Hepner has done over the past several years, along with the Superintendent, Alex Beson-Crone (and his crew), has been great to see. This is a great uphill version of a punchbowl and has some awesome interior contours that I feel set it apart from the MacRaynor courses I've played.

[Sean_A]

One of the best par 4's on a course that nobody talks about is the par 4 8th hole - Punchbowl at Blue Mound G&CC.  The work Bruce Hepner has done over the past several years, along with the Superintendent, Alex Beson-Crone (and his crew), has been great to see. This is a great uphill version of a punchbowl and has some awesome interior contours that I feel set it apart from the MacRaynor courses I've played.

Holy moly! Thanks. Shame about the cart path 🙈.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think I’d need convinced on that last hole… we usually spend our time trying to remove artificial looking framing ridges on greens…. This has gone the other way.


Would be very interested to see it in person / at ground level.

[archie_struthers]

 


In the Philadelphia area there is a plethora of good golf courses and great holes to boot.  After seeing a lot of them I still think the 12th hole at Woodcrest CC (flynn 1929) is one of the best I've played.


The tee shot has to be fairly long and accurate as anything right of center brings a magnificent tree approximately 40 yards short right of the green into play. There is a nasty  bunker front left and the green is fairly deep. It's a difficult hole but still really good!
Lots of options including bouncing your second onto the green if you have the skill.

[Jon Claydon]

#4 at Dooks is pretty spectacular. 

[Bob Montle]

The par 4 13th hole at Fraserburgh.
My favorite hole anywhere.
Those who have played it will understand!

[Brad Tufts]

I'll nominate 8 at Essex County Club. Everyone talks about the back 9, particularly 10, 17, 18 (and 11, thought that's a par 3). But 8 is just awesome. Blind drive to a 3 level fairway (short left is high, long left is right, right is in the middle) with OB up the left. If you go left and hit it far enough you catch the speed slot and have the angle into a green sloping hard back to front and right to left. From the right the slope of the green makes it a much harder shot, but you don't deal with the OB. And the green is awesome with a devilish pin on a shelf back right. Just an awesome, awesome hole. I'm kind of shocked I haven't seen the multi-level fairway like this hole used more often.


Here is a great photo of the fairway: https://twitter.com/the_fried_egg/status/1446645871152701442/photo/4

8 is truly an awesome hole...but my favorite is 16.  The new tee has re-instituted the long-iron approach diagonally across the waste area.  I will say that the fescue along the right edge of the green may need to be thinned a touch, but it's a great hole.  Essex is my favorite course in New England, I live about 10 miles from it.

[Quinn Thompson]

Osaka Golf Club has some of the best par 4's Ive ever seen...


Been a long time since I've finished 18 and turned around and muttered, "God Damn that was good."

[Ira Fishman]

I have never gotten anyone to agree, but I think the 14th hole is the best hole on Pinehurst #2. Most average players have trouble reaching the fairway bunker on the left which allows them to favor the left side of the fairway leaving a better angle to the green. The longer hitters have to play to the right side of the fairway, leaving a shorter shot but over the forward bunker which is several yards short of the green. The shorter hitter has an opportunity to run the ball onto the green left of the forward bunker. Bunkers left and right of the green are challenging, but long is dead into a steep drop off...too steep to putt up. The only shot is a flop to a green running away.


It is  a "pure" golf hole with multiple options and multiple challenges. The average player can make a par, but is more likely to make a double bogey. Bogey is not a bad score.

One could make a case for each of the Par 4s on PH2 as being the “best” which is why you may have not convinced anyone about 14 (a terrific hole). I am a huge fan of Numbers 3 and 11 because length is not a real factor, the angling of the greens is befuddling, and the green contours daunting.


Ira

[Tim Martin]

I'll nominate 8 at Essex County Club. Everyone talks about the back 9, particularly 10, 17, 18 (and 11, thought that's a par 3). But 8 is just awesome. Blind drive to a 3 level fairway (short left is high, long left is right, right is in the middle) with OB up the left. If you go left and hit it far enough you catch the speed slot and have the angle into a green sloping hard back to front and right to left. From the right the slope of the green makes it a much harder shot, but you don't deal with the OB. And the green is awesome with a devilish pin on a shelf back right. Just an awesome, awesome hole. I'm kind of shocked I haven't seen the multi-level fairway like this hole used more often.


Here is a great photo of the fairway: https://twitter.com/the_fried_egg/status/1446645871152701442/photo/4

8 is truly an awesome hole...but my favorite is 16.  The new tee has re-instituted the long-iron approach diagonally across the waste area.  I will say that the fescue along the right edge of the green may need to be thinned a touch, but it's a great hole.  Essex is my favorite course in New England, I live about 10 miles from it.

The inward nine has great variety in the par four holes and the shortish uphill 17th looks benign from the card yardage but is anything but for purposes of making par. The tee shot is played uphill as is the blind approach to a tiered back to front sloping green. There is a sense of intrigue as you climb the hill hoping to see your ball on the green but also under the hole. The natural beauty of the hole is striking with the natural rock outcroppings and fescue.

[David Ober]

 There are some classics TOC 17, PB 8 and so on. But what are some par 4s that don’t get the love they deserve for being great holes?


 I’ll start…. North Berwick 17. When researching NB before I played it it’s never mentioned. But it’s awesome. It requires that all you got tee ball to make the second shot shorter. The second shot is intimidating because if it comes up short the third gets nasty. If you hit the green it’s hard to keep it there with the club the shot requires. And the green is a sneaky one and has more break than it looks. And a front pin placement is a great three putt opportunity. . Great hole. It’s a test and a tuff par late in the round if you are trying to post a good score.


Next?

13 at Lakeside. Amazing little number with a green reminiscent of the diabolical 10th at Riviera.

[Peter Flory]

These aren't obscure holes, but my favorite holes that I never hear anyone talk about

Mid Pines: #1 (first holes are often disregarded).  This is one of my favorite starts anywhere. 
TOC: #2, it's perfectly weird and probably a result of them expanding the course out from its single out and back.  It's a hole that no architect would ever make up on their own. 
Old Elm: #12, my favorite hole on the course.  It's in the corner of the property and in people's minds. 
Butterfield: #8 Blue.  It's a gorgeous hole visually, it uses the terrain better than any other hole on the course, and due to the big diagonal bunker complex, it plays wildly different depending on the wind and the pin position. 

[Scott McWethy]

#4 & #7 at Sand Hills.  One long par 4 and the other a short tricky one.


#17 at Black Sheep GC in Sugar Grove, Illinois.

[mark chalfant]

Southampton,NY   Raynor    The strech from 3-6 is among the best I have ever seen. great variation in lively terrain, bunkering and splendid greens.


4th requires a deft approach to a perched green. 6th is fine dogleg which rewards an accurate draw that avoids some bunkers.