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Tim Martin

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Re: Can a hole that can only be played one way be a great hole?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2021, 07:12:35 AM »
Can’t Sawgrass #17 be played many different ways? Or maybe I’m thinking shots…fades, draws, punches…hard swings or take something off?  Especially since there typically isn’t a ton of wind normally. #7 at Pebble - more variety (club selection but not shot shape) or less?  Then, #12 at ANGC?


Matt-I believe that “way to play the hole” refers to the route taken to navigate from tee to the green at least for purposes of this thread.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can a hole that can only be played one way be a great hole?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2021, 06:37:56 PM »
I don't know that I subscribe to the premise of maybe anything outside an island green hole only being able to be played one way, even then on 17 at Sawgrass you could play wide left and try to pitch on from 40 metres or so.


Necessity is the mother of invention, and I think people who need to see alternate routes are often able to see them where those of us who can play the hole the "intended" way look past them.


My grandparents came to play with me once at my old club, Bonnie Doon in Sydney.


The 13th is a 150-metre par three from the forward tee, with a carry of probably 120 over a ridge that makes the green blind and atop the ridge is vegetation 20ft or so high with deep native from the tee to the ridge. My 80-year-old grandmother was no chance of hitting that shot.


To the right is the 9th fairway, but there were a heap of trees in the way. Then she looked left and the 14th fairway was a 60m or so carry across the native and about 60 feet below us. She took her driver and played out to the left into the 14th fairway, then bunted a seven iron up beside the green, chipped to five feet and made the putt for a four, nett birdie, and won the hole.


I wouldn't be surprised if she was the only person who has ever deliberately played the hople that way, but she had to find a way, and she did.

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can a hole that can only be played one way be a great hole?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2021, 07:51:53 PM »
Reading this thread I could only think of my family friend Brett Upper who finished T4 at the TPC in 1986.  Walking to the 17th tee he saw the leaderboard and had no chance to win.  Very nervous he elected to punch chip a 6 iron on to the front of the green.  Tom Kite looked or his caddy looked into Brett’s bag and Tom proceeded to hit the same club and sailed it over the green and they were very annoyed. So maybe you all think like Kite that there is only one way to play the game.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can a hole that can only be played one way be a great hole?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2021, 07:59:25 PM »
Can’t Sawgrass #17 be played many different ways? Or maybe I’m thinking shots…fades, draws, punches…hard swings or take something off?  Especially since there typically isn’t a ton of wind normally. #7 at Pebble - more variety (club selection but not shot shape) or less?  Then, #12 at ANGC?


Matt-I believe that “way to play the hole” refers to the route taken to navigate from tee to the green at least for purposes of this thread.

I think more in terms of choices to avoid features. So a typical hazard/bunker carry hole means the feature must be carried. Or if the same exists on both sides of the fairway. Quite one dimensional. Sure, there is choice if shot type, but the features must taken on. IMO, this is fine, but harder to design a great hole of these types.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Can a hole that can only be played one way be a great hole?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2021, 09:31:31 PM »
Can’t Sawgrass #17 be played many different ways? Or maybe I’m thinking shots…fades, draws, punches…hard swings or take something off?  Especially since there typically isn’t a ton of wind normally. #7 at Pebble - more variety (club selection but not shot shape) or less?  Then, #12 at ANGC?


Matt-I believe that “way to play the hole” refers to the route taken to navigate from tee to the green at least for purposes of this thread.

I think more in terms of choices to avoid features. So a typical hazard/bunker carry hole means the feature must be carried. Or if the same exists on both sides of the fairway. Quite one dimensional. Sure, there is choice if shot type, but the features must taken on. IMO, this is fine, but harder to design a great hole of these types.

Ciao


Agree if you are saying it’s harder to design a great forced carry hole that plays great.  #17 at Sawgrass is super challenging from championship tees and very manageable from the resort tees.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

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