News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Brett Meyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2021, 08:31:00 AM »
I've enjoyed reading others' takes on some of the courses that I've played. Some that I really disagree with (i.e. Pine Needles a 5), but that's to be expected. I always find it hard to assign a course a number because I feel that so many fall between the categories. I'll just give my list with some additional commentary when I thought that a course was noteworthy.

I'm also thinking of posting a full pictorial write-up of American Dunes on this site if anyone would be interested in that.

Whistling Straits (Straits): 7. Obviously it's an excellent course with several fine holes along the water. I was concerned about the par 3s being too similar but that wasn't a problem at all because while they're all on the water, the elevation change varies between them. But the narrowing of the fairways for tournaments has made it too narrow in spots and more generally, some of the holes on the water felt like they were on awkwardly narrow shelves (i.e. 4). 5 is one of the worst holes that I've ever played. Still, the best course that I played this year.

Meadowbrook: 7. Just down the street from my father's house, I was excited to finally play here this year. It's just a very thoughtful golf course. The greens contouring is very well done, the bunkers are well-placed and not excessive, and there's good give-and-take between hard and easy. Because of the shaping style, the obvious point of comparison in Michigan is Arcadia Bluffs-South. I liked this course more, in large part because of the restrained bunkering. I don't love the angular shaping given the broad contours of the site and some of the green edges were a bit severe, but it's an excellent course.

American Dunes: 7. I played this course twice and my takeaway was that it might be the best public course in Michigan. There are probably a few too many water holes for some on here but except for 18, I liked them. The strength of the course is in the middle of each 9, with some very good par 3s and some of the best par 4s in the state (5, 11, 16). I also like the two fall-away greens on the par 5s nos. 2 and 13. Walkable and critical that you do so that you don't have to hear Jack Nicklaus bragging about himself on the GPS screen as you approach each tee.

Keilir: 6. Not worth the trip to Iceland in itself, but definitely worth taking a day to play while you're there. I could convince myself that it's a 7 because there are several great holes and an excellent set of greens. It may be hard to argue otherwise when they complete the new par 5 and par 3 that they're planning on the cliff's edge on the back nine.

Indianwood (Old): 6. Being from Michigan, I've wanted to play here for years and it was nice to have the chance. It's a beautiful property and there are some very good holes but it's looking a bit exhausted at the moment, with shrunken mowing lines everywhere.

Bulle Rock: 6. Probably the best piece of property that I've seen for a Dye course and unlike some of the other Dye courses that I played this year (Irish, Barefoot), it was nicely restrained. Not sure that there were any great holes, but there were many very good ones (1, 3, 10, 11, 14, 17).

Warren Course: 6

Dunes Golf and Beach Club: 6. Everyone says that this is the best course in Myrtle Beach but I can't see putting it above Caledonia. It's an excellent course for a good player; you have to drive the ball straight and hit high, soft iron shots because most greens are bunkered across the front. But there wasn't anything particularly interesting about the design other than the 13th hole. It felt like the other Trent Jones courses that I've played, but on a very nice property.

Brautarholt: 6. My initial thinking was lower because holes 10-12 are mundane and the routing is awkward on the main 9, but there are too many very good-to-great holes for this to be less than a 6. The long par 3 5th over the beach must be one of the world's best.

True Blue: 6. Definitely a borderline 5/6. I appreciated the restrained shaping and there are some very good holes, but the routing is awful and the last 3 holes are just overdone.

Whistling Straits (Irish): 5
Barefoot (Dye): 5
Barefoot (Love): 5

Tidewater: 5. 6 for the individual holes, -1 for the routing.

Stonewall (VA): 5
King's North: 5

Blue Mash: 5. Maybe the only Arthur Hills course that I've played without a severe flaw in the routing. Over-mounded and a few awkward, narrow short par 4s. But it's mostly solid. Better than almost all of the Hills courses in Michigan.

Lake Presidential: 4. Supposed to be the best public course in the DC area...it isn't. They let me walk it, which was a terrible idea; it must have been a half mile walk around the pond on 18 just to get from the tee to the fairway. Greens are often a bizarre concave-inside-convex; if you hit the green the ball funnels inward but if you just miss it, it runs away. Some very good holes but a few awful ones too (1, 14).

Worthington Manor: 4
Twin Lakes (Oaks and Lakes): 4
The Ravines: 4
Hawkshead: 4
Raspberry Falls: 4
Clustered Spires: 4
Myrtlewood (Pines): 4

Glen Mills: 0/4. I thought that they were really onto something here in the first 5 holes but then it just goes so bad, with several fairways with about 60 ft. of landing area width. Probably not much that they could do given the property and there's some compensation in the form of some very good holes and greens (except no. eight). But they probably shouldn't have built a course here and I wouldn't want to play it again.

Rattlewood: 3
Bramblewood: 3
Pleasant Valley: 3
Enterprise: 3

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2021, 10:42:24 AM »

Atlantic City 6
Bald Peak Colony 6
Bidermann 7
Blue Mound 6
Charleston Muni 5
Cherokee Town (North) 5
Deepdale 7
Diamante (Dunes) 8
Diamante (El Cardonal) 6
Eugene 6
Forest Creek (North) 6
Hidden Creek 6
Huntingdon Valley 7
Lac La Belle 6
Louisville 7
Mammoth Dunes 8
Monterey Peninsula (Dunes) 7
Roaring Gap 6
Rockaway Hunting 6
Secession 6
Sheep Ranch 8
Stonewall (New) 7
Stonewall (Old) 6
The Preserve 5
Worcester 7
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 02:27:03 PM by Paul Jones »
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Steve_Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2021, 03:13:30 PM »

I had a decent year. 64 new golf courses with 10 return trips to places I like. Not bad for golf being illegal in Ontario for four weeks! Once the border opened, I was able to take two trips to the states which was great, and one more planned with a few more heavy-hitters hopefully.

Kittansett - 8
San Francisco Golf Club - 8
Somerset Hills - 8
California Golf Club - 8
Bandon Dunes - 7
Balitmore (Five Farms) - 7
Olympic Club - 6
Lancaster - 6
Old Macdonald - 6
Mount Bruno - 6
Philly Cricket (Wissahickon) - 6
Grand-Mere - 6
Waskesiu - 6
Sheep Ranch - 6 
Presidio - 5
Lake Merced - 5
Burlington - 5
Lachute (No. 1) - 5
Rocky Crest - 4
Beaconsfield - 4
Wildfire - 4
TPC Harding Park - 4
Clear Lake - 4
Kanawaki - 4
Bond Head (South) - 4
King Links - 4
Cooke Municipal - 4
Richmond (BC) - 4
Le Diable - 4
Niagara on the Lake - 4
Bond Head (North) - 4
Northwood (CA) - 4
Manoir Richelieu - 3
Granite Hills (MB) - 3
Taboo - 3
Ki-8-Eb - 3
Credit Valley - 3
Le Maitre - 3
Bridgwater - 3
Corica Park (South) - 3
L'Ile de Montreal (Ireland) - 3
Sainte-Agathe - 3
Gleneagles (BC) - 3
Glenboro - 3
Dunany - 3
Stanley Park - 3
Elk Ridge (SK) - 2
Calerin - 2
Murray Bay - 2
Port Hope - 2
Angus Glen (South) - 2
Shilo - 2
Sharp Park - 2
Haggin Oaks - 2
BraeBen - 1
Les Ruisseaux - 1
Hockley Valley - 1
Northlands - 0




Return trips


Pacific Dunes - 9
St. George's - 7
Sagebrush - 7
Bandon Trails - 7
Lookout Point - 6
Cherry Hill - 6
Muskoka Bay - 6
Tarandowah - 5
TPC Toronto (Heathlands) - 5
Devil's Pulpit - 4
Henderson Lake - 3


Did you give a "0" to Northland Country Club in Duluth, MN or is the course you list something different?

Jerry Rossi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2021, 05:27:08 PM »
Long time listener, first time caller here....I've enjoyed following along for a few years and joined this "club" maybe 2 months ago...this is my first comment (be gentle):


I'm a big fan of the Doak scale and while I didn't play that many new courses this year, here's a few with the Doak score he gives it which would be the same for me on these 5:


Oakmont - 9 - I thought it was the best really hard course I've ever played.  In total contrast to say Blackwolf Run River, where seemingly every missed shot is a lost ball, I thought OCC was very demanding but still super fun.  I played poorly but did it with one ball.


Prairie Dunes - 9 - what's not to love about the greens at PD?


Austin GC - 7 - I think the score might be a tad low but regardless I love this C&C design


Fox Chapel - 6 - I'm a huge "MacRaynor" geek and feel 6 is fair despite thinking the conditions were way too soft and the Road hole absolutely not a road hole that I'd recognize.  The Eden (3rd) could be my favorite of any MacRaynor I've played.


Kenosha CC - 5 - a bit rough around the edges but still a really good Ross with room to improve - especially a couple greens at the end of the round that are almost completely unplayable. 
Instagram: @putt4dough24

Andrew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2021, 06:56:07 PM »
Long time listener, first time caller here....I've enjoyed following along for a few years and joined this "club" maybe 2 months ago...this is my first comment (be gentle):


I'm a big fan of the Doak scale and while I didn't play that many new courses this year, here's a few with the Doak score he gives it which would be the same for me on these 5:


Oakmont - 9 - I thought it was the best really hard course I've ever played.  In total contrast to say Blackwolf Run River, where seemingly every missed shot is a lost ball, I thought OCC was very demanding but still super fun.  I played poorly but did it with one ball.


Prairie Dunes - 9 - what's not to love about the greens at PD?


Austin GC - 7 - I think the score might be a tad low but regardless I love this C&C design


Fox Chapel - 6 - I'm a huge "MacRaynor" geek and feel 6 is fair despite thinking the conditions were way too soft and the Road hole absolutely not a road hole that I'd recognize.  The Eden (3rd) could be my favorite of any MacRaynor I've played.


Kenosha CC - 5 - a bit rough around the edges but still a really good Ross with room to improve - especially a couple greens at the end of the round that are almost completely unplayable.


There's no such thing as gentle here on GCA. Welcome to the thunderdome my friend.
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2021, 08:39:17 PM »
CC of Farmington,CT  6.  Many great holes, especially the well bunkered par fours.
Cape Cod (Emmet) 7. Superb routing over rugged terrain. Great Volcano hole and nuanced greens.
Cape Arundel 8 Compact sporty and ideal maintenance meld. For me the set of putting surfaces are top ten in USA.
Skokie 7. A lovely restoration by Ron Prichard,superb bunkering some by Ross, much by Langford




Sand Valley 8.  The opening four holes here by Coore and Crenshaw contain more fun and character than the full 18 on some very good courses!
The Lido 8.5 This score is based on the 13 holes that had both fairways and greens fully grassed. Majestic scale, fierce bunkering and many very large greens with exceptional interior contours. Beautiful shaping and features throughout. Some of the most interesting holes that I have ever seen. 1,5 Cape, 10 Alps,12,13 Knoll and the 560 yard 17 were personal favorites.


,
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 08:51:14 PM by mark chalfant »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2021, 11:07:43 PM »

The Lido 8.5 This score is based on the 13 holes that had both fairways and greens fully grassed. Majestic scale, fierce bunkering and many very large greens with exceptional interior contours. Beautiful shaping and features throughout. Some of the most interesting holes that I have ever seen.


Holy shit!
Then again, you gave Cape Arundel an 8!   :D

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2021, 11:10:29 PM »

Mammoth Dunes 8
Roaring Gap 6



One of these numbers must be wrong.  They are kinda similar, except for fairway size.  And, of course, hype.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #108 on: December 02, 2021, 11:18:35 PM »

Mammoth Dunes 8
Roaring Gap 6



One of these numbers must be wrong.  They are kinda similar, except for fairway size.  And, of course, hype.


What’s the Doak score for a course that is only play if I’m already staying at a resort?!  ;) 


Mammoth is fun enough as a novelty but traveling across the country for it would be like doing the same for a par-3 course.
H.P.S.

Andrew Harvie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #109 on: December 02, 2021, 11:46:17 PM »

I had a decent year. 64 new golf courses with 10 return trips to places I like. Not bad for golf being illegal in Ontario for four weeks! Once the border opened, I was able to take two trips to the states which was great, and one more planned with a few more heavy-hitters hopefully.

Kittansett - 8
San Francisco Golf Club - 8
Somerset Hills - 8
California Golf Club - 8
Bandon Dunes - 7
Balitmore (Five Farms) - 7
Olympic Club - 6
Lancaster - 6
Old Macdonald - 6
Mount Bruno - 6
Philly Cricket (Wissahickon) - 6
Grand-Mere - 6
Waskesiu - 6
Sheep Ranch - 6 
Presidio - 5
Lake Merced - 5
Burlington - 5
Lachute (No. 1) - 5
Rocky Crest - 4
Beaconsfield - 4
Wildfire - 4
TPC Harding Park - 4
Clear Lake - 4
Kanawaki - 4
Bond Head (South) - 4
King Links - 4
Cooke Municipal - 4
Richmond (BC) - 4
Le Diable - 4
Niagara on the Lake - 4
Bond Head (North) - 4
Northwood (CA) - 4
Manoir Richelieu - 3
Granite Hills (MB) - 3
Taboo - 3
Ki-8-Eb - 3
Credit Valley - 3
Le Maitre - 3
Bridgwater - 3
Corica Park (South) - 3
L'Ile de Montreal (Ireland) - 3
Sainte-Agathe - 3
Gleneagles (BC) - 3
Glenboro - 3
Dunany - 3
Stanley Park - 3
Elk Ridge (SK) - 2
Calerin - 2
Murray Bay - 2
Port Hope - 2
Angus Glen (South) - 2
Shilo - 2
Sharp Park - 2
Haggin Oaks - 2
BraeBen - 1
Les Ruisseaux - 1
Hockley Valley - 1
Northlands - 0




Return trips


Pacific Dunes - 9
St. George's - 7
Sagebrush - 7
Bandon Trails - 7
Lookout Point - 6
Cherry Hill - 6
Muskoka Bay - 6
Tarandowah - 5
TPC Toronto (Heathlands) - 5
Devil's Pulpit - 4
Henderson Lake - 3


Did you give a "0" to Northland Country Club in Duluth, MN or is the course you list something different?


Oops sorry. I hear Northland is pretty good. Northlands in North Vancouver, BC. It is horrendous.
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2021, 12:35:21 AM »
Wyantenuck, MA 5.5  (Robert Pryde, Charles Banks) Nice elevation changes creating many neat approach shots


Kankakee Elks, Illinois, 6.   A stellar William Langford routing with many marvelous greens!


Westchester,NY  7. Much to admire:  fabulous Travis greens and numerous great par fours that rise and tumble over dramatic terrain!


North Cotuit Links, MA  3   A sporty nine- holer composed of short holes to tiny greens. Variety of uphill and drop shot testers require precision and deliver fun.


Mammoth Dunes, WI 7    A memorable walk in the park devised by David M. Kidd. Varied par fives and some bold greens. The strech from 3-7 is packed with inventive holes that are fun to play 






« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:41:15 AM by mark chalfant »

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2021, 10:04:16 AM »

Mammoth Dunes 8
Roaring Gap 6



One of these numbers must be wrong.  They are kinda similar, except for fairway size.  And, of course, hype.


If I was giving 1/2 points, I would give Mammoth 7.5 and Roaring Gap 6.5.  I do like the wider fairways and bigger greens at Mammoth Dunes.  I had fun playing both courses with great company.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2021, 11:52:11 AM »

Kankakee Elks, Illinois, 6.   A stellar William Langford routing with many marvelous greens!
 
Mark I haven't played it in a couple years. How is it now?  Can't imagine that much improved and bones are a 6, but in it's condition of a couple years ago a 5 at best IMO. I'm a big Kankakee Elks fan as well. It could be a 7 with some TLC. Chainsaw and reclaim some green space, as well as widen some fairways. Bunkers (not many) were very tired when I was there as well.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

V_Halyard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2021, 02:27:06 PM »
My First 10 - (of 41 new plays to date)
***EDIT***actually my first 9 as I inadvertently included McCall Field which I had played several times prior.

Heritage Shores Club – Bridgeville, DE – 5 – With the possible exception of Wingpointe (RIP) in Utah, I found this to be the most playable, interesting golf course by the late Arthur Hills I’ve seen, even with some of the usual over-shaping that will offend purists.  Long on variety, every hole presents an interesting puzzle to be solved largely due to creative, imaginative greens set at interesting angles.
 
Old York Road Country Club – Ambler, PA – 4.5 – A typical William and David Gordon style course that are ubiquitous in the region, with very atypical sloping greens with wild interior contours.   I’m not sure they make the course better, but they sure make it more difficult.
 
Moorestown Field Club – Moorestown, NJ – 4 – A recent Kelly Moran resto makes the vintage architectural features pop on this trip back in time.   Additional tree clearing on the flat property would make it special.
 
Carlisle Barracks – Carlisle, PA – 3.5 - A military track at the historic “war college”, this course offers a few architectural surprises that combined with excellent conditioning elevate it above merely “average”, approaching “pleasant”.
 
Piney Apple Golf Course – Biglerville, PA – 1 – An amateur architect spent many years building this course as a labor of love on land unsuitable for the purpose that was formerly an apple orchard and maybe still should be.   
 
Cape Neddick Country Club – Ogunquit, ME – 3 – There are a small handful of really good golf holes here and just enough New England coastal charm to offset the awful “new nine” that is supposedly an attempt to recover Donald Ross holes lost in lean years while rebuilding them under modern environmental restrictions.
 
Wawenock Golf Club – Walpole, ME – 5.5 – A terrific, sleepy Stiles/Van Kleek nine that could use a loving brush-up.   The first three and last three are worth double the price of admission, although the semi-U shaped, par-five 4th is one of the oddest and most awkward holes I’ve ever seen.
 
Boothbay Harbor Country Club – Boothbay Harbor, ME – 6 - Resurrected from a tired classic-era Wayne Stiles design, Boothbay Harbor is now basically a Bruce Hepner golf course.   Blessed with an owner with deep pockets and a will to move heaven and earth to create good golf holes, Boothbay is only ultimately held back by a very hilly site that makes walking a challenge and the creation of great golf holes an edgy proposition.
 
Northeast Harbor Golf Club – Northeast Harbor, ME – 5 A very low-key, turn-of-last-century club in a gorgeous Acadia National Park setting, I had hoped to find hidden treasure.   It turns out that using dynamite to blast out and fashion golf holes in 1915 led to some overly narrow, densely wooded, tightly cramped hole corridors on the mountain, although the five par threes are all gems, particularly the 12th.


1... ouch.  Sour Apples  :)
"It's a tiny little ball that doesn't even move... how hard could it be?"  I will walk and carry 'til I can't... or look (really) stupid.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2021, 11:19:59 AM »
I'm going to be away for a couple days on non golf related activity but I have 12 more courses sI played for the first time this year to rate . Just to create a little anticipation, they are;


Pelican Beach
Prairie Club Pines
Prairie Club Dunes
Prairie Club Horse
Frederick Peak
Caprock Ranch
Ironwood
Grover Cleveland
Pine Acres
Pennhills
Bidermann
Knollwood
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #115 on: December 06, 2021, 05:47:48 PM »
A surprisingly good year full of interesting Golf.

The first 4 courses are just off the A9 as you travel North through  Scotland.
Killin (9)  4 Joy. Up and back and forth across a hill on springy turf to some of the smallest greens I’ve played. The Par 3 5th hole has alternate tees at 90 degrees – the best example of creating a new challenge I’ve seen. The fairways and green grasses are longer than you are used to but that means a different experience, no divots or putting breaks. Deep Joy.
Strathtay (9) 4 A little further along the A9 and the golf is a little more polished. The Par 4 5th is extraordinary, driving over a ridge where a long ball is lost! Cool club.
Carbridge (9) 3 A bit more conventional but some fine holes (Par 4 2nd). Welcoming club, lovely views.
Abernethy (9) 4 Again a different feel and with a 15’ high war memorial slap bang in the middle of a fairway you wont forget it in a hurry. Good golf to be had here. Possibly the pick of the A9 bunch.

Elgin 6 Why haven’t I heard more about this delightful course. Fine mix of holes  and a lovely walk. If it has Pine and Birch and free draining soil who says Scotland has no Heathland Courses?
Covesea (9)  5 Nuts. I walked off confused but increasing look back with curiosity. Just thinking about the short 5th makes me smile. 90 yards. Uphill. Blind. Ribbon of raised green. Genius.
 Moray Old 6/7 Much more interesting than the ‘average’ links. Suffering condition on the fairway but all the interest you could want. I’m going back.
Moray New 4  The land is similar but slightly inferior to the Old but the greens are a lot less interesting.
Cullen.  3  Overall a bit boring with some unusual features. A few fine holes. Wont be back.
Pitlochry. 5 Just delightful.  More mountain climbing early on but much fine golf to follow.
Pitlochry Putting Green. It’s a delightful town to stay in and this is the second best municipal putting green I’ve seen. Of course its up and down, but the two teens we took though it was Braw.
Winterfield 2. 4 links holes and a concrete farmers field don not make a golf course. Will never trust John Huggan’s views of Architecture. He grew up playing this and mentions it as under the radar. There’s at least 12 reasons why its not.


Conwy 6.  Delightful walk and with its own special understated character. Nothing to dramatic to report, just solid golf with subtle green design. Strong finish.
North Wales 4/5.  Several holes aren’t links and the standard is much more uneven.   I was less impressed by some by the two Par 3’s at the end – miss those greens and say goodbye to your ball.

Aldeburgh River Course  (9)  4 This is relatively new and I was very impressed.  How to design a short ‘beginners’ course that is interesting to all? Here the solution is big greens with lots of interesting pin positions. Plays above a lovely estuary with great views.
Aldeburgh Championship Course 6 The 4th hole is my favourite Par 3 I saw all year. But the rest of the course became…a slog.  Whack, whack, whack on a course where the holes don’t distinguish themselves in the way that TOC or Deal do, can make for a long day – even when you get round in 3hrs.
Thorpeness 5/6.  I really liked this but it needs room to breathe.   Attach the gorse and the fairways can be widened enough to let the course shine. Keen to get back.
Mardyke Valley 2.   Good company and we enjoyed ourselves. The only new course I played within 90 miles from home!

Bramshaw Forrest Course 4 This is the nearest I’ve found to that lovely  common land golf I know from the  Cotswolds. Its open and nothing like as hilly as Cleeve Hill or as flat as Minchinhampton but shares that spirit. Dates back to 1865.

Harewood Downs 5 Was expecting just another course but what a delightful surprise. The first tips you off. A steep downhill Par4 that requires an unusual amount of precision to hold the green. Great routing on unpromising land and I particularly loved the Par 4 16th where you take an oblique line to find a punchbowl fairway – well that’s the theory.

Newquay 4 Not convinced a true links but some cracking golf holes.   One of the very few where you can truly see the sea from every hole. Epitome of holiday golf.

Trevose  6.  Maybe even better – played on my own in a huge wind.   Some great stuff but somethings lacking and I’m not sure what…..
Holywell Bay Par 3.  We were on holiday with a friend who said she always wanted to try golf. So wife and daughter joined in, because she was playing.  Small well placed greens kept it interesting for me, much more than I anticipated so I’m giving it a name check here.

Reddish Vale 5  Seems I liked this more than many of the BUDA Cuppers. Take out 16 and 18 and its full of interest.  The 446 yard 13th to a green hidden in a little dell was a surprise and delight.

Seaton Carew 6.  It’s just about the golf. Some of the most interesting greens you’ll see on a links and if the club can get them back to what they reputedly were just a few years ago then this course would sing.

JCB 7.  I was blown away. It has a style of its own with interest in every shot.  Disguise and big movement on the greens makes for a delight. If it was properly walkable I’d rate it even higher.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 03:05:14 PM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2021, 06:50:36 PM »
Tony,


Your post makes me glad I started this thread. Thank you.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Nate Oxman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #117 on: December 06, 2021, 08:03:20 PM »
My 3rd 10 of 41 new courses played this year, to date;

 Sunnybrook Golf Club – Plymouth Meeting, PA – 6 – One of the interesting things about Sunnybrook is that 13 of the holes parallel each other in north/south direction along a broad slope falling from the clubhouse to a creek valley below but at no time does the course feel back-and-forth, or one-dimensional, due to the clever routing.   Excellent tree management and adequate fairway widths give a sense of freedom that wears well throughout.   Limited play helps the top-notch conditioning.
 
Radley Run Country Club – West Chester, PA – 4.5? – Sadly we were only able to play the first few holes on this very rolling tract before extended storms nixed our round.   What we were able to play (and see) looked reasonably good, if perhaps a bit too sloping for consistently good golf.   Hope to get back to confirm or update first impressions.
 
Meadows Golf Club – Lincoln Park NJ – 2 – Somehow architect Hal Purdy and later owner Hank Finelli were able to squeeze a 6,400-yard golf course onto what seems clearly less than 100 acres but proximity to NYC and cart drivers swilling six packs mean it’s cramped, flat, doesn’t drain, and downright dangerous in spots.   Pray for a scramble.
 
Stafford Country Club – Stafford, NY – 5.5 – It’s indicative of how much terrific golf exists in the Rochester (NY) region that this rural gem goes largely unnoticed.   While the bunkers need refreshing, and many of the original Travis greens were neutered early on by Trent Jones and Stanley Thompson, the terrific routing still shines through.   The back nine in particular is a gem with the rollicking Travis 11th green capping a superb hole and the bunker-less 16th and 17th dell green in a blind hollow perhaps the highlights of a course long on variety and interest.   The short 18th where the green was moved to accommodate some such thing needs reconsideration, however.
 
Cherry Hills Country Club – Englewood, CO – 7.5 - The course that put "Arnie's Charge" on the map during the 1960 US Open, Cherry Hills recently has been implementing a long-range plan to refine the course for modern times.   Thankfully, rather than narrowing fairways, growing roughs, and tightening targets, the club is just shining up what's already there in the form of tree management, fairway widths offering different options of play, and short grass around greens that allow the ball to roll-out.  The clockwise (then counter), then counter around the perimeter of the property is masterful and utilizes all the natural features and contours in an effective way.   The knock on Cherry Hills among Flynn courses is that if it was located in Philadelphia, or Cleveland (where clusters of Flynn courses exist) it wouldn't be anything special.   Thankfully, that's just not true because not only can't you divorce Cherry Hills from its sense of place (with long views of the city and Rocky Mountains) but hole by hole it stacks up against Flynn's best.
 
CommonGround (Short Course) – Aurora, CO – 4 – Built as a free children’s course and adjunct to the wonderfully popular municipal course, it’s a perfect spot to grab a few clubs, lace on your sneakers, and play low key holes ranging from 70 to 140 yards, with restrained architectural features.   Any course where kids can play free immediately gets more than a 3 from me.
 
Overland Park Golf Course – Denver, CO – 3.5 – The site of the original Denver Country Club is today a thriving municipal course where I ended up after finding that Donald Ross’s nearby Wellshire was hosting a tournament.   It turned out to be a nice piece of kismet as Wellshire looked badly in need of serious tree management and Overland turned out to be a pleasant surprise that included some vintage architectural features, fine conditioning, and easy playability.
 
Holyoke Golf Club – Holyoke, CO – 3 – I found it pretty cool that most of the little prairie towns in eastern Colorado had some form of modest golf course, but this one had pizazz due to tiny, perched greens with lots of fun internal contour and interesting angles.   I still don’t know the architect but a few years prior to moving to this site Donald Ross and Henry Hughes had been talking with the club, so who knows.   Loved the honor box in the tiny clubhouse, as well.
 
Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club – Holyoke, CO – 10 – After finally making it there, I was confused to see that all raters in the most recent “Confidential Guide” gave Ballyneal a “9”, clearly out of deference to another great course not so far away in Nebraska.   Checking again the definition of a “10”, and finding the following; Nearly perfect; if you skipped even one hole, you would miss something worth seeing. If you haven't seen all the courses in this category, you don't know how good golf architecture can get. Call your travel agent immediately. I’m more than ever convinced of my impressions and score.   Even Ran’s review on this site profiles every single hole at Ballyneal as a “Hole(s) to Note”.   I believe the only other course I’ve seen here where every single hole is selected is again the Nebraska neighbor.   So, to break that seal and to call out what I think is a bit of affected intellectual reverence that is really unnecessary at this point, I’ll simply say that Ballyneal is more fun than humans should be allowed to have.  Find your way there.
 
Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club (Mulligan Course) – Holyoke, CO – 6 – Intertwined among the bigger course, this set of 12 par three holes can be played in various configurations as I learned when my very experienced caddy took me for an 18-hole loop.   The greens are even wilder than on the original course and targets are tighter as befits the yardage.   Favorite had to be the completely blind shot over the turtle and if you’re a drinking and/or betting man this is the place for that, as well.




I agree that the routing of Sunnybrook is impressive but I've always thought that Sunnybrook's most endearing feature is its green complexes. They're really fun.

Nate Oxman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2021, 08:04:34 PM »
My 3rd 10 of 41 new courses played this year, to date;

 Sunnybrook Golf Club – Plymouth Meeting, PA – 6 – One of the interesting things about Sunnybrook is that 13 of the holes parallel each other in north/south direction along a broad slope falling from the clubhouse to a creek valley below but at no time does the course feel back-and-forth, or one-dimensional, due to the clever routing.   Excellent tree management and adequate fairway widths give a sense of freedom that wears well throughout.   Limited play helps the top-notch conditioning.
 
Radley Run Country Club – West Chester, PA – 4.5? – Sadly we were only able to play the first few holes on this very rolling tract before extended storms nixed our round.   What we were able to play (and see) looked reasonably good, if perhaps a bit too sloping for consistently good golf.   Hope to get back to confirm or update first impressions.
 
Meadows Golf Club – Lincoln Park NJ – 2 – Somehow architect Hal Purdy and later owner Hank Finelli were able to squeeze a 6,400-yard golf course onto what seems clearly less than 100 acres but proximity to NYC and cart drivers swilling six packs mean it’s cramped, flat, doesn’t drain, and downright dangerous in spots.   Pray for a scramble.
 
Stafford Country Club – Stafford, NY – 5.5 – It’s indicative of how much terrific golf exists in the Rochester (NY) region that this rural gem goes largely unnoticed.   While the bunkers need refreshing, and many of the original Travis greens were neutered early on by Trent Jones and Stanley Thompson, the terrific routing still shines through.   The back nine in particular is a gem with the rollicking Travis 11th green capping a superb hole and the bunker-less 16th and 17th dell green in a blind hollow perhaps the highlights of a course long on variety and interest.   The short 18th where the green was moved to accommodate some such thing needs reconsideration, however.
 
Cherry Hills Country Club – Englewood, CO – 7.5 - The course that put "Arnie's Charge" on the map during the 1960 US Open, Cherry Hills recently has been implementing a long-range plan to refine the course for modern times.   Thankfully, rather than narrowing fairways, growing roughs, and tightening targets, the club is just shining up what's already there in the form of tree management, fairway widths offering different options of play, and short grass around greens that allow the ball to roll-out.  The clockwise (then counter), then counter around the perimeter of the property is masterful and utilizes all the natural features and contours in an effective way.   The knock on Cherry Hills among Flynn courses is that if it was located in Philadelphia, or Cleveland (where clusters of Flynn courses exist) it wouldn't be anything special.   Thankfully, that's just not true because not only can't you divorce Cherry Hills from its sense of place (with long views of the city and Rocky Mountains) but hole by hole it stacks up against Flynn's best.
 
CommonGround (Short Course) – Aurora, CO – 4 – Built as a free children’s course and adjunct to the wonderfully popular municipal course, it’s a perfect spot to grab a few clubs, lace on your sneakers, and play low key holes ranging from 70 to 140 yards, with restrained architectural features.   Any course where kids can play free immediately gets more than a 3 from me.
 
Overland Park Golf Course – Denver, CO – 3.5 – The site of the original Denver Country Club is today a thriving municipal course where I ended up after finding that Donald Ross’s nearby Wellshire was hosting a tournament.   It turned out to be a nice piece of kismet as Wellshire looked badly in need of serious tree management and Overland turned out to be a pleasant surprise that included some vintage architectural features, fine conditioning, and easy playability.
 
Holyoke Golf Club – Holyoke, CO – 3 – I found it pretty cool that most of the little prairie towns in eastern Colorado had some form of modest golf course, but this one had pizazz due to tiny, perched greens with lots of fun internal contour and interesting angles.   I still don’t know the architect but a few years prior to moving to this site Donald Ross and Henry Hughes had been talking with the club, so who knows.   Loved the honor box in the tiny clubhouse, as well.
 
Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club – Holyoke, CO – 10 – After finally making it there, I was confused to see that all raters in the most recent “Confidential Guide” gave Ballyneal a “9”, clearly out of deference to another great course not so far away in Nebraska.   Checking again the definition of a “10”, and finding the following; Nearly perfect; if you skipped even one hole, you would miss something worth seeing. If you haven't seen all the courses in this category, you don't know how good golf architecture can get. Call your travel agent immediately. I’m more than ever convinced of my impressions and score.   Even Ran’s review on this site profiles every single hole at Ballyneal as a “Hole(s) to Note”.   I believe the only other course I’ve seen here where every single hole is selected is again the Nebraska neighbor.   So, to break that seal and to call out what I think is a bit of affected intellectual reverence that is really unnecessary at this point, I’ll simply say that Ballyneal is more fun than humans should be allowed to have.  Find your way there.
 
Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club (Mulligan Course) – Holyoke, CO – 6 – Intertwined among the bigger course, this set of 12 par three holes can be played in various configurations as I learned when my very experienced caddy took me for an 18-hole loop.   The greens are even wilder than on the original course and targets are tighter as befits the yardage.   Favorite had to be the completely blind shot over the turtle and if you’re a drinking and/or betting man this is the place for that, as well.


I agree that the routing of Sunnybrook is impressive but I've always thought that Sunnybrook's most endearing feature is its green complexes. They're really fun.

Jim Tang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2021, 10:09:40 PM »
I'm going to be away for a couple days on non golf related activity but I have 12 more courses sI played for the first time this year to rate . Just to create a little anticipation, they are;


Pelican Beach
Prairie Club Pines
Prairie Club Dunes
Prairie Club Horse
Frederick Peak
Caprock Ranch
Ironwood
Grover Cleveland
Pine Acres
Pennhills
Bidermann
Knollwood


I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on Caprock Ranch!

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #120 on: December 08, 2021, 05:40:42 PM »
Thanks, Jim Tang.


For the record, that was by far the most complicated rating I saw all year.  Really.very different than expectations.  Hoping to get these finalized by end of week.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #121 on: December 08, 2021, 06:40:03 PM »
Moraine CC                   7
Canton Brookside CC  7
NCR CC South               7
Charles River CC          6
Sunningdale CC(NY)    6
Sleepy Hollow GC(OH) 6
Nassau CC                     6
Triggs Memorial GC     6
Shorehaven CC             5
Mound GC                     3
Mount Anthony CC       3


Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #122 on: December 10, 2021, 05:31:44 PM »
Not so much in the "new" category for me this year; hoping for more in 2022...
Denver Country Club (CO)  8  I’m including my home course in new courses for 2021 because it underwent significant work by Gil Hanse in 2020-2021, with relocation/reshaping of several greens (1, 8, 11, 14, 17), a new par three 7th hole and significant expansion of all the other greens. Overall I’d say the results were favorable: The terrific new 8th green at the end of a par 5 that now can stretch to 675 yards is the best result; the new short 7th hole has me and some other people scratching their heads as it seems out of character with the rest of the golf course. The subtle and challenging greens remain the strength of this course, and the expansion to create new pin positions makes them moreso. Perhaps some home course bias here, but I think the Hanse work moved DCC up a tick on the Doak Scale.
[/color]Denver City Park Golf Course[/size] (CO) [/b][/color]5   [/size]I had very low expectations for what would be done on this total redo of the old City Park course because I didn’t think there was enough acreage to do anything special. I was pleasantly surprised to see the result. A Biarritz first green, a Redan-ish par 3 fifth hole and a long par 4 11th hole that RTJ would be proud of? I didn’t expect those… Except for a couple weak holes on the front nine and a terrible par 5 13th hole that’s shoehorned through newly constructed wetlands (which were the apparent reason for the course being redone in the first place), it is quite solid. Great views of downtown Denver too.
Ballyneal Short Course  (CO) 7.5   We had a blast playing this after rounds on the Ballyneal course. I love how it was routed through the middle of the north side of the property where the front nine is located. Some wild greens and blind shots equal a fun experience, and a perfect complement to the regulation course.
[/size][/color]Gypsum Creek Golf Course[/size][/b] (CO) 3.5  [/size][/color]This public course west of Vail is more like a Doak 3 through the vanilla front nine but the back nine runs up into the adjacent foothills and offers much more interesting shots and strategy. Allegedly a Pete Dye design but I didn’t see anything that linked the course to what I’ve seen at other Dye courses.[/size]
[/color]Todd Creek Golf Club[/size][/b] (CO)  5  [/size][/color]This public course in a North Denver suburban housing tract is a strong test for better players but playable for lesser players, which I think is a mark of a good golf course. A solid mix of long and shorter par 4s and par 3s.[/size] [/font]
[/size][/color]Bedford Springs Resort Old Course (PA) [/size][/color]My favorite new course of 2021. Love the routing, greens and greensites of what seems like a terrific restoration of this Ross classic.  [/size]Only the short opening and closing holes hold this back from a 9 IMO.
[/color]Desert Canyon[/size][/b] (AZ)  3.5  [/size][/color]A pleasant enough course but, with the exception of a couple very good par threes and some interesting sloped greens, not particularly memorable. Pales by comparison with other options in the North Scottsdale region. [/size]
[/color]Dobson Ranch Golf Course[/size] (AZ) [/b]3.5  [/color]A surprisingly good Mesa muni that exceeded expectations. Decent variety, some fun greens and solid par threes.[/size] Rough around the edges but pretty good bones.Pauma Valley (CA)--  7  Solid, challenging but very playable RTJ course that uses the property well, including the wash area that bisects the front nine and the hill that impacts the back nine openers and closers. Excellent greens with variety and challenge. Some repetitiveness of par fours and similar length par threes mark it down a bit, but not much. Indian Wells Golf Resort Players (CA)  4  A “resort” course befitting its name whose holes I can’t recall very well less than a month later. The par threes were solid but the two finishing holes were shoehorned into a separate piece of the property along the highway and just seemed out of character. [/color]PGA West Pete Dye Dunes Course (CA)  4 [/size][/color]The least of the PGA West courses. The routing seems somewhat forced and contrived, with several holes running down a wash area. Greens in particular were pretty tame. Probably the least interesting “Pete Dye” course I have played except for Gypsum Creek mentioned above.[/size] [/font]
[/size][/color]Toscana Country Club South Course (CA)  5  [/size][/color]A Nicklaus course in the middle of an upscale Palm Desert housing development. The Nicklaus template of high fades required into well-guarded greens can get old, but it’s a solid test nonetheless.[/size][/color] Great landscaping too![/font][/color]
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Adam T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #123 on: December 11, 2021, 06:42:05 PM »
Pacific Dunes, OR: 9
Old MacDonald, OR: 9
 
Bandon Dunes, OR: 8
Bandon Trails, OR: 8
 
Sedgefield Country Club, NC: 7
Sheep Ranch, OR: 7
 
Abenakee Club, ME: 6
Cutalong at Lake Anna, VA: 6
 
Penobscot Valley Country Club, ME: 5
Quail Hollow Club, NC: 5
 
Lakeside Park Club, VA: 4
Maple Chase Golf and Country Club, NC: 4
 
Bandon Preserve, OR: 3
Champion Hills Club, NC: 3
Crystal Coast Country Club, NC: 3
Fox Ridge Golf Course, ME: 3
Garner Country Club, NC: 3
Grandover Resort (West), NC: 3
Hound Ears Club, NC: 3
Lexington Golf Club, NC: 3
The Club at Longview, NC: 3
Martindale Country Club, ME: 3
 
South Granville Country Club, NC: 2
Wendell Country Club, NC: 2
401 Par Golf, NC: 2
 
Honorable mention – recent first loop of the *restored* Southern Pines GC, NC: 6

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Courses you played for the first time in 2021 with your Doak Scale score
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2021, 09:24:07 AM »

 
Ballyneal Golf and Hunt Club – Holyoke, CO – 10 – After finally making it there, I was confused to see that all raters in the most recent “Confidential Guide” gave Ballyneal a “9”, clearly out of deference to another great course not so far away in Nebraska.   Checking again the definition of a “10”, and finding the following; Nearly perfect; if you skipped even one hole, you would miss something worth seeing. If you haven't seen all the courses in this category, you don't know how good golf architecture can get. Call your travel agent immediately. I’m more than ever convinced of my impressions and score.   Even Ran’s review on this site profiles every single hole at Ballyneal as a “Hole(s) to Note”.   I believe the only other course I’ve seen here where every single hole is selected is again the Nebraska neighbor.   So, to break that seal and to call out what I think is a bit of affected intellectual reverence that is really unnecessary at this point, I’ll simply say that Ballyneal is more fun than humans should be allowed to have.  Find your way there.
 


Wow, Mike.


The interesting thing about the rating for Ballyneal was that it is the ONLY course in The Confidential Guide to get four 9's.  Every other "9" has one guy who thinks it's an 8, or a 10.


I think you are right that a lot of that is deference to Sand Hills, combined with the fact that the designer of the course is also the author of the book.  There is certainly reluctance on my part to give more than one or maybe two 10's to my own designs, because people already say I rate my courses higher than I should [even though that's not true].