[Anthony Gray]

 Oh the joys of a drivable par 4. You start looking forward to that hole when you get out of the bed on golf day. You think about it on the drive to the course. Can you drive it today? Might you even ace it? Or will you most likely over swing, pop it up or duck hook it? The drivable par 4 is a special gift from the architect.


 But how about the par 3 that needs a driver? Why not more? The driver par 3 has similar joys to the drivable par 4 off the tee. Carnoustie 16. Brandon Trails 12. Crail 5. What are others?


What land conditions make for a driver par 3? Downhill? Flat? Bunkers or no bunkers? Could it be blind?


Did I mention Cruden Bay 15?


These holes are treats. Watching the ball roll in anticipation. High marks on the fun scale. So where can they be found? And why don’t we see more?

[Anthony Gray]

 1

[Cal Seifert]

North Fork CC on the east end of Long Island has a 250 yard par 3 but I believe it was originally a par 4. Donald Ross design. The green is probably too severe to play as a par 3 in my opinion.


The most recent NoLayingUp video had a part where they talked about all the old courses having super long par 3’s and architects weren’t afraid to make people hit drivers into par 3s.

[Tom_Doak]

Is that THE Anthony Gray of years past???




You don't see more "driver par 3" holes because most golfers hate them.  The old 2nd hole at The Renaissance Club was often a driver -- Ian Woosnam had to hit driver when he played it, and he did not like the idea of hitting driver on a par-3!


The two greatest of the type are the 16th at Cypress Point and the 6th at West Sussex.  You don't have to hit driver on either; you can play them like par-4's instead.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tom, it must be!
Note the hint he provided, the 'mention' of Cruden Bay.
The real Anthony Gray's trademark, or at least one of them, was his near constant mentions of Cruden Bay
Welcome back, Dr. Gray!

[Brett Meyer]

The two greatest of the type are the 16th at Cypress Point and the 6th at West Sussex.  You don't have to hit driver on either; you can play them like par-4's instead.

You'd have to be a pretty short hitter to need a driver for the 6th at West Sussex; it's 220, but about 30 feet downhill. I used the same club that I used on 12, which is ~195. But it also works as a short par 4 because you can play from short and right.


A great example that I've seen recently is the 5th at Brautarholt in Iceland. It's about 240 from the tips over a lava sand beach. A bit of a reverse image of the 6th at West Sussex, with plenty of room to approach from short and left.


The 6th at West Sussex:





The 5th at Brautarholt:

[Anthony Gray]

Is that THE Anthony Gray of years past???



 A much heavier version.

[Anthony Gray]

Tom, it must be!
Note the hint he provided, the 'mention' of Cruden Bay.
The real Anthony Gray's trademark, or at least one of them, was his near constant mentions of Cruden Bay
Welcome back, Dr. Gray!

 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[Kevin_Reilly]

#3 at Orinda is 260 and driver for most from the blue tees (which many play because the course is only about 6300 yds).  Downhill helps, but usually there is a slight breeze in your face to negate the elevation benefit.


Standing on the tee, with an expanse in front of you...could be the easiest drive of the day!  Or not.

[Thomas Dai]

You'd have to be a pretty short hitter to need a driver for the 6th at West Sussex; it's 220, but about 30 feet downhill.
A great example that I've seen recently is the 5th at Brautarholt in Iceland. It's about 240 from the tips over a lava sand beach. A bit of a reverse image of the 6th at West Sussex, with plenty of room to approach from

Careful with generalisations.
Golfers come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and strengths and ages and two genders as well and quite a few don’t hit the ball too far irrespective of what colour of tee marker they’re playing from.
Atb.

[Peter Pallotta]

#3 at Orinda is 260 and driver for most from the blue tees (which many play because the course is only about 6300 yds).  Downhill helps, but usually there is a slight breeze in your face to negate the elevation benefit.

A great example of/rationale for why I play the same set of tees throughout the entire round, and why I don't find it 'fun' or 'interesting' to move from one set to another as I see fit, ie because I'm then sapping out of the design the very variety the architect intentionally put there to interest and challenge and beguile me. The adrenaline rush of getting to a Par 3 that calls for a 260 yard drives lies in the fact that it's so unexpected! Like most others, I assume, I too would automatically chose the blue-6300 yard tees, and likely already have in my mind a pretty good and accurate idea of what that would 'play' like ie, the typical hole lengths for the Par 3s and 4s and 5s.....and then suddenly I'm faced with the 3rd!!
Fantastic!

[Thomas Dai]

Did I mention Cruden Bay 15?

Terrific hole. Much misunderstood.
Hit Driver when playing the hole into the wind many, many times back in the day. Have also played it with just a putter.
Atb


PS - would like to see the guys we watch on TV play a few ‘par-3s’ that are maximum on their Driver distance. Par at the elite level and the scores posted in relation to it are a joke these days.

[John Foley]

Don't mind it when I come across it, but I'd hate to play it as one of the holes on my course I play all the time.


Myopia #3 & Chechessee #16 both fit the bill. I think the larger the putting surface the better and a bail out area is a must. Without those they start to get too tough.

[Tommy Williamsen]

My wife hits driver on many many par threes.

[Eric Smith]

I love running across the occasional 250 yard par 3. Tom’s 5th hole at Dismal River fits the bill. Same goes for the 17th hole at Ganton.


Welcome back to GCA, Anthony!

[Tim Passalacqua]

11 at Talking Stick North is 261!

[Sean_A]

 Oh the joys of a drivable par 4. You start looking forward to that hole when you get out of the bed on golf day. You think about it on the drive to the course. Can you drive it today? Might you even ace it? Or will you most likely over swing, pop it up or duck hook it? The drivable par 4 is a special gift from the architect.


 But how about the par 3 that needs a driver? Why not more? The driver par 3 has similar joys to the drivable par 4 off the tee. Carnoustie 16. Brandon Trails 12. Crail 5. What are others?


What land conditions make for a driver par 3? Downhill? Flat? Bunkers or no bunkers? Could it be blind?


Did I mention Cruden Bay 15?


These holes are treats. Watching the ball roll in anticipation. High marks on the fun scale. So where can they be found? And why don’t we see more?

All in favour 225 to 270 yard par 3s.

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

I love running across the occasional 250 yard par 3. Tom’s 5th hole at Dismal River fits the bill. Same goes for the 17th hole at Ganton.


Welcome back to GCA, Anthony!

Eric-Can you post a couple of the pics when Dr. Gray carried for you at The Old Course? Great stuff!

[Joe Hancock]

There’s a near-original Donald Ross course in Ionia, MI, formerly Ionia CC but now expanded to 18 holes and called Thunder Ridge. The second hole is uphill, 235 par 3 and essentially a punchbowl. Funstuff!

[Sean_A]

There’s a near-original Donald Ross course in Ionia, MI, formerly Ionia CC but now expanded to 18 holes and called Thunder Ridge. The second hole is uphill, 235 par 3 and essentially a punchbowl. Funstuff!

I grew up on Ross course whose 18th was a 235 yard par 3. Never hit anything less than driver even as a solid 2 capper. My only proper hole in 1.

Ciao

[Phil Burr]

I’m a fan of driver length par 3s that have an element of mystery.  A blind or semi-blind shot, like you might encounter on a gambling second shot on a reachable par 5, can be very stimulating and rewarding.  Until the last 25 years or so, #2 at Wyantenuck Golf Club in Great Barrington MA was a great example.  246 yards, aimed at a pole on a hillside.  You approached the crest of the hill in anticipation of what you would see: did I judge the carry and roll just right and I have a birdie putt?  Or did my shot carry too far and I’m scrambling from the back?  Did I perhaps hit a soft spot and come up short?  Many of my favorite holes of all makes and models include this element of mystery as to the outcome of your play.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Kyle Philips built a 260 yard Biarritz on the 12th hole at Hillcrest CC in Los Angeles

[Colin Macqueen]

Anthony,
"A heavier version!"
More is better ..... generally speaking!!
#16 at Carnasty cripples me each time I visit!
Cheers Colin

[Mark_Fine]

Tommy,
You beat me to it .  My wife also hits driver on many many par threes and still can’t reach. 


There are tons of pars threes that need driver.  The average bogie golfer carries it about 190 yards and rolls it to 220 if I am not mistaken.  Jeff will know for sure


By the way is a 260 yard hole a par three or a par four??  You tell me?  Today they have 530 yard holes that they call par fours.  Didn’t we see some at the recent PGA event in TX. 


If the thread is about par threes that require a driver for the pros it better be over 300 yards long. 

[mike_malone]

Back in 1926 they just said #10 hole 260 yards for Rolling Green.  It’s a driver for me. It’s very receptive of a running shot particularly of the low hook variety which I hear was the preference for the best back then.

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