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John McCarthy

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 08:13:07 AM »
Hasn't the cost of sand exploded in the last ten years due to fracking?
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Adam Lawrence

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 08:45:17 AM »
Fracking may have had an impact in certain locations; in others there are many other pressures affecting the price and supply of sand.


There is no global marketplace for sand; it is a commodity bought and sold locally so there are many different sand prices.


But generally, across the world, hugely more sand is being consumed than is being replaced by weathering etc, and obviously such a situation has an upward effect on prices.


See my article from the current GCA on the subject: [size=78%]https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/digital/magazine/issue66/48/[/size]
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Jeff Schley

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 08:46:26 AM »
Updated.  FYI I took out the yearly Y category to avoid any misunderstanding. I am trying to identify sandcapping from the GCA point of view during original or renovation undertaking.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Thomas Dai

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2021, 09:08:42 AM »
You need somewhere between 50,000 and 80,000 cubic yards to cap the fairways a foot deep, based on 30-50 acres of capping.  Do the math, and you can see why everyone wants to skimp on the depth of capping. But if you skimp too much, the water won't release out of the profile very well, and you'll be playing second shots off the equivalent of a damp sponge.
Be curious to know more about the logistics, vehicles movements, vehicle types and sizes, spreading and grading etc of moving these kind of amounts of sand around a construction site or for that matter even moving these amounts of sand from the sand quarry to a construction site if none is available on site.
Also, what is the situation below the sandcap? What happens when water that flows through the sandcap reaches the firmer layer below? To what extent is drainage in the firmer layer below the sandcap still needed?
atb

Adam Lawrence

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2021, 09:30:30 AM »
You need somewhere between 50,000 and 80,000 cubic yards to cap the fairways a foot deep, based on 30-50 acres of capping.  Do the math, and you can see why everyone wants to skimp on the depth of capping. But if you skimp too much, the water won't release out of the profile very well, and you'll be playing second shots off the equivalent of a damp sponge.
Be curious to know more about the logistics, vehicles movements, vehicle types and sizes, spreading and grading etc of moving these kind of amounts of sand around a construction site or for that matter even moving these amounts of sand from the sand quarry to a construction site if none is available on site.
Also, what is the situation below the sandcap? What happens when water that flows through the sandcap reaches the firmer layer below? To what extent is drainage in the firmer layer below the sandcap still needed?
atb


Trucks. Lots and lots of trucks.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Don Mahaffey

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2021, 10:01:04 AM »
Sand Capping is one of those golf construction terms that gets way to generalized IMO.
Just about every golf construction project has some manner of plating over sub soils with a rootzone material - almost always on greens and often on tees and approaches.
In this discussion it is more about plating with sand imported onto the site. In that case the type of sand and depth of plating is simply a science and cost benefit exercise that should ALWAYS be science based.


To clarify a couple of statements made in above posts - I've worked on three Fazio renovations, none were sand capped. No project where I've had input has the depth or selection of sand been made without guidance by an accredited lab. Of course cost is important and part of the discussion, but the choices are made based on science with input from the consultants and professionals hired to guide that part of the project. Agronomists' recommendations are not ignored because it costs too much.  There have been cases where the cost of sand capping was simply too high, and adjustments in surface drainage and storm drainage were made in place of capping.


As Tom Doak mentioned at Memorial Park in Houston the fairways and greens surrounds were capped, about 38 acres of capping. That required 68,000 tons of sand to cap at 9" depth. We tested 5 sands and the results were we had to cap from 7" to 14" based on the each sand's ability to release water.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_retention_curve
The 7" material was too coarse and had to much gravel, the 14" material was finer, less expensive by a little, but the lab and agronomist feared it would lock up sooner as organics built up over time, and it would have taken 50% more sand. We selected a sand that gave us good infiltration in a range of 7" to 10" and used a 9" depth as our baseline.


The capping process is basically the same as building a green in that you get the subgrade right then move the material onto the subgrade and work it until you have the proper depth. In our case that was thousands of off road truck loads moving sand and then a process of checking depths and working the sand until it's dialed in. On every fairway we dug 100's on holes checking depths because its very difficult to get it perfect during the hauling process. The biggest pain with capping is all the traffic and how it impacts other tasks like cart path, irrigation, drainage...it's a logistical challenge receiving, moving, installing all that sand, especially on a project that closes in Jan and opens in Nov. So you've got to get the material In place to open up for everything else going on. And you've got to make room for more sand to be received.


87,000 linear feet of perforated drain lines were installed under the sand cap at Memorial. On a green you install 10'-12' of perf drainage per 100' sq ft, under this cap we installed about 5' -6' per 100' sq ft. 

Every project is different. As Tom noted they had abundant sand at Pac Dunes and they were able to plate thicker, probably in place of installing a bunch pf drainage, but they had an expert who was making sure the water had somewhere to go away from the surface. If you don't have abundant sand, then you go thinner and add more drains. I like helping to solve those puzzles, and sometimes no capping at all and other drainage methods is the more practical solution.

At Memorial the tournament sponsor and Tour knew it rains a lot in Houston and wanted to play the ball down as often as possible, and build a course that could handle heavy play without getting destroyed when wet from all the traffic. At this year's tournament it rained 1" in 30 mins on Thursday morning. By Sat they were playing the ball down.  Marc Lieishman was the leader after Thursday's round and in his presser after the round he said this after being asked how the course handled the rain, "it was unbelievable. I don't know what they did underneath this place, but in the fairways, greens, and tees it was dry. Whoever designed the drainage, they did a great job"  What we did was let science drive the decisions and we had a client who trusted that process.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 10:24:11 AM by Don Mahaffey »

JMEvensky

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2021, 10:34:24 AM »
Don, thanks for taking the time to type that--even a lay person can understand the process now.

Kalen Braley

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2021, 10:51:03 AM »
Don,

A big thanks for posting up those details as well.  Interesting to see the type of due diligence that went into the work, in addition to being able to turn it around quickly.

Doing some basic math, even assuming you got the sand for half of Toms figure at $10/cu.yard, that would still be $680K just for the sand (hopefully that price included delivery too)

Sounds like you answered another question, in terms of ordering for shaping features vs sand capping.

Thank you!

P.S.  In terms of time, its said when working on a project you often spend near the same amount of time to get the little  details right at the end, as it takes to get everything else up and running.  Do you have an approx guess what the time breakdown was between getting everything roughed in and sand capped, and then doing all the details at the end to achieve the finished look?

Thomas Dai

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2021, 11:20:54 AM »
Don,
Many thanks for the insightful and enlightening post.
Atb

SL_Solow

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2021, 12:03:14 PM »
Don,  Adding my thanks for having the patience to post a detailed and educational post.  I am reminded of why I have spent so many years here; I learn a lot

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2021, 03:38:19 PM »
Every Fazio course including Augusta National.  Fazio has made a great living going back to his courses over 30 years suggesting they be sand capped and regrassed.


Both courses at Corica Park in Alameda.


Joel,
  Maybe your comment about Fazio is tongue & cheek? Some might not know the difference here & take your comment as legitimate.  If not tongue in cheek,  it’s completely a false statement. Completely.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2021, 04:58:54 PM »
I think I remember reading years ago that they brought in a lot of sand to build Bro Hof Slott GK in Sweden, but I don't remember the exact details.

Kevin Stark

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2021, 06:31:42 PM »
I believe Aldarra in the Seattle area is sandcapped.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2021, 06:49:03 PM »
Eagle Point GC, near Medford, OR, was sand veneered during construction (RTJII)

Ok, what is sand "veneered"?

Whatever it is the could stand some Y, as it may be the softest course I have ever played besides that Ridgefield disaster Slag and I slogged around one winter day.
Garland,
I have no idea what "sand veneered" means, it is what is on their website. Years ago I was told Eagle Point was sandcapped

Steve Lang

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2021, 11:37:50 PM »
 8)  "Veneer" probably a poor choice of words... can't help but think of a thin layer of sand ... would be nice to know the thickness specs...


some basic terms for discussion of groundwater movement include aquifers and aquitards (confinement stratum), its nice to have the permeability of sand but if its confined and can't move or discharge the water anywhere quickly, not much benefit beyond filling the available voids or porosity... 
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

John Emerson

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2021, 08:55:21 PM »
Jaeger got there before me. Castle Stuart was sand capped from what I was told and I believe it all came out of the hole in front of the 12th tee or at least that is the legend. Kingsbarns however isn't sand capped. What they did there was mix the sand where the lower holes are with the soil on the top part and spread it evenly over the whole course so that there was at least a consistency in soil even if it wasn't sand, or pure sand at any rate.

Niall


This is kinda how it happened, but you forgot THE biggest and most important component.  Compost!!  They brought in tons and tons of compost to mix it in everywhere.  I’m not sure why this gets glanced over when talking about soil amendments.  Maybe most just don’t understand the importance of compost incorporation into marginal soils or how it works, but I can promise you it is just as important if not the most important addition
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2021, 07:32:53 AM »
Jaeger got there before me. Castle Stuart was sand capped from what I was told and I believe it all came out of the hole in front of the 12th tee or at least that is the legend. Kingsbarns however isn't sand capped. What they did there was mix the sand where the lower holes are with the soil on the top part and spread it evenly over the whole course so that there was at least a consistency in soil even if it wasn't sand, or pure sand at any rate.

Niall


This is kinda how it happened, but you forgot THE biggest and most important component.  Compost!!  They brought in tons and tons of compost to mix it in everywhere.  I’m not sure why this gets glanced over when talking about soil amendments.  Maybe most just don’t understand the importance of compost incorporation into marginal soils or how it works, but I can promise you it is just as important if not the most important addition


Jon - Was this my friend Chris Haspell's idea? He knows what he is doing when it comes to fescue and links turf

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2021, 03:17:39 PM »
The new 9 at Castlecomer (built in the early 2000s) was sandcapped when it was built.


I would include courses that were on very heavy and aggressive fairway/rough topdressing programs. IE ones that completely buried the turf numerous times to build up a substantial sand cap over a short period. There are a few in Ireland that would qualify in that scenario, with Mount Juliet in particular having a large sand cap.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Adam Lawrence

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2021, 10:56:27 AM »
Something quite interesting: do we have any idea of when the first courses were sandcapped?


I found contemporary articles that say very clearly that, when Hugh Alison built Burning Tree in 1922, the fairways, from a point about 150 yards from the tee to the putting greens, were capped with sand -- or as the article says 'built according to the standard putting green formula'. A total of 27 acres was capped in this way, using more than 8,000 tons of sand.


It must have been a phenomenal undertaking back in the 1920s.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2021, 11:03:08 AM »
Something quite interesting: do we have any idea of when the first courses were sandcapped?


I found contemporary articles that say very clearly that, when Hugh Alison built Burning Tree in 1922, the fairways, from a point about 150 yards from the tee to the putting greens, were capped with sand -- or as the article says 'built according to the standard putting green formula'. A total of 27 acres was capped in this way, using more than 8,000 tons of sand.


It must have been a phenomenal undertaking back in the 1920s.


A bit OT, but while I think along those general lines, every time I look at railroad lines built in the 1800's or early 1900's, they sometimes involve a lot more earthmoving than golf courses, but were routinely undertaken.  With the right economics, they seem to have had earthmoving down by that time. 


And I wouldn't be surprised to find some courses of that era sand capped out of necessity, i.e., no topsoil, but not as many as today where optional is probably still the case, but they go ahead anyway.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John Emerson

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2021, 12:40:31 PM »
Jaeger got there before me. Castle Stuart was sand capped from what I was told and I believe it all came out of the hole in front of the 12th tee or at least that is the legend. Kingsbarns however isn't sand capped. What they did there was mix the sand where the lower holes are with the soil on the top part and spread it evenly over the whole course so that there was at least a consistency in soil even if it wasn't sand, or pure sand at any rate.

Niall


This is kinda how it happened, but you forgot THE biggest and most important component.  Compost!!  They brought in tons and tons of compost to mix it in everywhere.  I’m not sure why this gets glanced over when talking about soil amendments.  Maybe most just don’t understand the importance of compost incorporation into marginal soils or how it works, but I can promise you it is just as important if not the most important addition


Jon - Was this my friend Chris Haspell's idea? He knows what he is doing when it comes to fescue and links turf


Jaeger,
I’m specifically referring to KB.  Dave Wilber was the consultant on the KB grow in. 
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Colin Sheehan

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2021, 02:34:40 PM »
Fota Island in Ireland did a major sand-capping back in 2000.


Wouldn't you call the Lido a sand cap?


And Yale for that matter..."when in the timber one could not see fifty feet ahead, the underbrush was so thick. However, we found on that high land wonderful deposits of sea sand, indicating that the sea must have swept the land during the glacial period. In a bog some quarter of a mile long we found deposited some four to six feet of wonderful rich, black much. These two deposits of sand and muck made it possible to build the course."  Which they put on top of red clay and gravel.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 02:40:16 PM by Colin Sheehan »

Colin Sheehan

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2021, 02:38:51 PM »
As for Castle Stuart, the "muck shift" was an arduous process. The first 40 to 60 centimeters were stripped to remove all the organics. That was pushed aside and hauled to create mounding in places. And the good sand--"that broooown shu-gar"--was mined from a variety of locations, mostly the carry off 13 tee but from plenty of other place on site as well.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 05:09:21 PM by Colin Sheehan »

Greg Clark

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2021, 05:39:18 PM »
Trinity Forest was sand capped, but I don't think to the depth the original plans called for.
The PGA Frisco East (Hanse) course is sand capped, but only to a depth of four or six inches.  I forgot which one.

Thomas Dai

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Re: List of courses that have been "Sand Capped"
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2021, 03:36:57 AM »
Nature does sand-capping too. And top-dressing. Happens at links course when there’s a gale. Likely happens at sandy inland courses too.
Atb