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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
How do you handle the difference?
« on: November 20, 2021, 11:15:26 PM »
This is not news, but it really hit home: on Monday I watched two golfers on our range with launch monitors. Two time us woman’s amateur champion in her twenties has 148 7 iron carry and 230 driver carry with amazing consistency.Compare to the former US Open champion carrying drivers 395 and chipped drivers 350 and 6 iron 255. How could you ever build a course to challenge or more importantly examine both games? It took seeing this together with my own eyes…
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2021, 12:24:13 PM »
Quote from: mike_beene on November 20, 2021, 11:15:26 PM
How could you ever build a course to challenge or more importantly examine both games? It took seeing this together with my own eyes…


How about building shorter courses rather than longer ones. In recent years tournament organisers have had to move away from a par 72 "standard" because they couldn't physically make courses longer, or at least couldn't find the necessary length for the requisite 4 par 5's. Do away with the par 5's and make them long par 4's, shorten some par 4's to make them driveable, lengthen some par 3's also. Should be fairly straight forward, no ?


Niall
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2021, 01:49:56 PM »
Quote from: Niall C on November 21, 2021, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: mike_beene on November 20, 2021, 11:15:26 PM
How could you ever build a course to challenge or more importantly examine both games? It took seeing this together with my own eyes…


How about building shorter courses rather than longer ones. In recent years tournament organisers have had to move away from a par 72 "standard" because they couldn't physically make courses longer, or at least couldn't find the necessary length for the requisite 4 par 5's. Do away with the par 5's and make them long par 4's, shorten some par 4's to make them driveable, lengthen some par 3's also. Should be fairly straight forward, no ?



That's my plan!
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2021, 02:24:54 PM »
Mike,
Months ago I proposed a par 66 course that had 10 par threes, 4 par fours and four par fives.  If the par threes averaged 200 yards, the par fours averaged 500 yards and the par fives averaged 600 yards the course would still only be 6400 yards long saving a ton of real estate and maintenance expense.  It could easily challenge the best players in the world if designed well and also be fun for the average golfer by having varying sets of tees.  Maybe one day this will be done. 
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2021, 02:45:50 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on November 21, 2021, 02:24:54 PM
Mike,
Months ago I proposed a par 66 course that had 10 par threes, 4 par fours and four par fives.  If the par threes averaged 200 yards, the par fours averaged 500 yards and the par fives averaged 600 yards the course would still only be 6400 yards long saving a ton of real estate and maintenance expense.  It could easily challenge the best players in the world if designed well and also be fun for the average golfer by having varying sets of tees.  Maybe one day this will be done.


All you have to do is get a job, and then stick your neck out!
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2021, 03:00:48 PM »
Tom,
You are obviously much better getting those kind of jobs than me and probably could convince an owner to do it.  Go for it! It might change the golfing world. 
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2021, 08:37:38 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Fine on November 21, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
Tom,
You are obviously much better getting those kind of jobs than me and probably could convince an owner to do it.  Go for it! It might change the golfing world.


Mark:


I'm happy to do my own version at Sedge Valley.  Yours might make sense from one perspective, but it doesn't sound to me like something that would be popular.  Plus, par-4 holes are my favorites.
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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2021, 08:55:49 PM »
Tom,
The general concept is not rocket science and/or set in stone.  The idea I tossed out was simply a much shorter lower cost/maintenance design that could still challenge the pros, be exciting to play and manageable for most levels of golfers.  At the pace we are going, 8000 yards will not be enough.  We are already at the point where we are calling 7500+ yard courses par 70!!  I happen to think some of the greatest holes in golf are what I will call one shot holes but the same could be said about two shot holes and (not so much about three shot holes but there are some good ones out there). 
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you handle the difference?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2021, 10:19:07 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on November 21, 2021, 08:37:38 PM
Quote from: Mark_Fine on November 21, 2021, 03:00:48 PM
Tom,
You are obviously much better getting those kind of jobs than me and probably could convince an owner to do it.  Go for it! It might change the golfing world.


Mark:


I'm happy to do my own version at Sedge Valley.  Yours might make sense from one perspective, but it doesn't sound to me like something that would be popular.  Plus, par-4 holes are my favorites.


So how about a 2022 version of Elie?


Having 16 par fours ranging from about 250 to almost 460 tickles my fancy. Especially if those holes around 370 are scarce.


I figure I can give up 50 yards off the tee and still have a shout on short fours and long ones. But those driver-wedge holes for them kill me

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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010
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