It is only a matter of time!

[Ally Mcintosh]

When some of the best archies ever are brought in as examples of why change is good then I know something is up.

I am 50-50 on the subject. Some change is good, some not so much. To a large degree I am more interested in the reasons for change. What I don't like is accepting less than ideal changes for the excuse of health and safety. I think in general its a scam modern idea pedalled by archies.

I guess my dividing line is 9 at TOC. Who thinks it could be much better and who thinks it's fine as is?

Ciao

Of course it could be better. It’s fine as it is.

Well, there you go. A hole on the most revered course in the world tagged as fine. Not an overwhelming endorsement.

Ciao

Some things trump always trying to “improve”.


History, natural landscape (real, not constructed) and the truth that one “better” does make someone else’s “better” should be considered.


Sometimes “fine” is the best endorsement of all. Stop tinkering.

[Sean_A]

When some of the best archies ever are brought in as examples of why change is good then I know something is up.

I am 50-50 on the subject. Some change is good, some not so much. To a large degree I am more interested in the reasons for change. What I don't like is accepting less than ideal changes for the excuse of health and safety. I think in general its a scam modern idea pedalled by archies.

I guess my dividing line is 9 at TOC. Who thinks it could be much better and who thinks it's fine as is?

Ciao

Of course it could be better. It’s fine as it is.

Well, there you go. A hole on the most revered course in the world tagged as fine. Not an overwhelming endorsement.

Ciao

Some things trump always trying to “improve”.


History, natural landscape (real, not constructed) and the truth that one “better” does make someone else’s “better” should be considered.


Sometimes “fine” is the best endorsement of all. Stop tinkering.

Or, tinker where vast improvements can be achieved. In some ways the 9th is a showcase hole or at least it could be. 1, 17 and 18 all have something very cool and different about them beyond single greens. Then there is 9.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

What would you do on 9 that would gain universal approval, Sean? What Eureka moment is out there because no architect has managed to convince the R&A to date as far as I can see?… And it ain’t rocket science.


Maybe the best thing is just to leave it?

[Sean_A]

What would you do on 9 that would gain universal approval, Sean? What Eureka moment is out there because no architect has managed to convince the R&A to date as far as I can see?… And it ain’t rocket science.


Maybe the best thing is just to leave it?

No such thing as universal acclaim. But we know the 9th leaves a lot to be desired.

Ciao

[SL_Solow]

Each generation tries to build on the last.  Each should learn from the past although equipment and techniques change in all things.  I have always thought that placed in similar situations, the very best could compete in any era.  On the golf side, it is enough for me to say that Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus and Woods were the best of their era.  But when it comes to doing better in architecture I have a more difficult time largely due to the difference in available sites and changes in equipment for playing, building courses and maintenance.  Nonetheless I am wary of those who think that they can change older courses for the better.  My experience around Chicago has created that caution.  Many wonderful old courses were "modernized" during the period starting in the 60's and extending into the 90's.  Each architect thought he was improving the course involved.  The members/owners thought so too.  Those same courses are the subject of the restoration movement because the changes were deemed to have hurt the architecture.  In this regard, although I am a lawyer, I am reminded of the Hippocratic oath, "First, do no harm".

[Gib_Papazian]

Not trying to be a curmudgeonly twat, but a good comparison would be fabulous, classic architecture when compared to buildings with the kind of linear, flashy, empty-headed shite being constructed in major cities since the end of WWII.


The care and detail work of bygone craftsman puts to shame things (and I mean "things") like the Millenium Tower that has defaced San Francisco - like a giant penis sticking out of Mission Street. Pretty soon, we''l have our own "leaning tower of Frisco." There are 50 of those for every Transamerica building - and the same goes for golf designers.


Which explains why the most interesting golf courses built in America are almost invariably updated throwbacks. We don't need any more Algie Pulley or Desmond Blurhead one-off curiosities because Prince Puckler was right . . . . tried and true strategic arrangements work - even if they are a synthesis of solid ideas.


I'm paraphrasing here but, it was something along the lines asserting the constant search for novelty is a sign of an uncultivated mind. And no, referencing another thread, that does *not* include courses with unusual par, number of holes or yadages.








 

[Mark_Fine]

When Sand Hills was built it changed the direction of design (or at least had a big influence).  I guess some considered it novelty and definitely not God’s gift to GCA.  I gave it a 10 when I first saw it and some thought I was crazy.  I recall a friend who was a Pine Valley member call me after he played it and said he really didn’t like it.  I know others who belonged to high end super manicured clubs who thought is would turn into a rustic mini.  And look what it lead to. 


There will be another change in direction just like the one caused by the difference and fame generated by Sand Hills.  Just not yet sure what that will be but it also might seem like a novelty at first until others embrace it.  We will see. 

[Marty Bonnar]

What would you do on 9 that would gain universal approval, Sean? What Eureka moment is out there because no architect has managed to convince the R&A to date as far as I can see?… And it ain’t rocket science.


Maybe the best thing is just to leave it?

No such thing as universal acclaim. But we know the 9th leaves a lot to be desired.

Ciao

The 9th has been fairly substantially altered over the (old) course of history. It's had acres of heather removed, been lengthened, had bunkers added (and subsequently modified) and even most recently stolen a bit of the New Course for a new championship tee.

It's still pants!
 
F.