[David Kelly]

Although the list loses credibility in my mind ranking Pebble outside the top 10. If you offered golfers a round at Pebble vs any of the top 10, Pebble wins 7 out of 10 with the exceptions being Cypress. Augusta National, and maybe Pine Valley.

Not golfers who have played all or most of those 10.

[Peter Pallotta]

I just now got around to reading the texts/rationales that accompany the rankings.
I thought to myself, lucky for Ran and the credibility of the list (given its clear and distinct sensibilities) that "Pine Valley’s only benchmark is itself."

[Jeff Schley]

Props to the raters, several of which are familiar posters here.
 

Hoyt McGarity, Scottsdale, AZ (Chairman, GOLF Ranking Panel)

Ran Morrissett, Southern Pines, NC (GOLF Architecture Editor)

Scott Anderson, Eagan, MN

Ian Andrew, Brantford, Ontario, Canada

Joseph Andriole, MD, Orlando, FL

J. Dean Baggett, Ooltewah, TN

Rodolfo Barreto, São Paulo, Brazil

David Baum, Short Hills, NJ

Michael Blackham, Salt Lake City, UT

Jack Bonner, Myrtle Beach, SC

Bart Bradley, Bristol, TN

Thomas Brown, Los Angeles, CA

Frank Casey Jr., Letterkenny, Ireland

Jon Cavalier, Philadelphia, PA

Mack Clapp, Missoula, MT

Tom Clasby, Seal Beach, CA

Mike Clayton, N. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Chris Cochran, Palm Beach Gardens, FL

John Cornish, Brighton East, Victoria, Australia

Ben Cowan-Dewar, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Will Davenport, Ft. Lauderdale, FL

Brian Curley, Paradise Valley, AZ

Gordon Dalgleish, Wilmington, NC

Mike Davis, Liberty Corner, NJ

Tripp Davis, Norman, OK

John Dempsey, Pinehurst, NC

Tom Doak, Traverse City, MI

Derek Douglas, Chicago, IL

Barry Doyle, Greenwood Village, CO

Jimmy Dunne, North Palm Beach, FL

Alfonso Erhadt, Madrid, Spain

David Eger, Charlotte, NC

Christian Faergemann, Hellerup, Denmark

Ron Farmer, Markham, Ontario, Canada

Dave Forgan, Missisauga, Ontario, Canada

Noel Freeman, Lafayette, CA

Dana Fry, Naples, FL

Jeff Fujimoto, Scottsdale, AZ

Tim Gallant, Edinburgh, Scotland

Philip Gawith, London, England

Matt Gibb, St Louis Park, MN

Patrick Glynn, Lahinch, Ireland

Kye Goalby, Webster Groves, MO

Michael Goldstein, Otago, New Zealand

Hindrik Gommer, Voorburg, Netherlands

Charlie Grace, New York City, NY

David Greiner, Stamford, CT

Vaughn Halyard, Milwaukee, WI

Gil Hanse, Malvern, PA

Walter Harris, Naples, FL

Niall Hay, Birmingham, MI

Robin Hiseman, Fleet, England

Bill Hogan, Austin, TX

Simon Holt, Edinburgh, Scotland

Barry Hyde, Neshanic Station, NJ

Allan Jamieson, Burlingame, CA

Clyde Johnson, St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland

Gretchen Johnson, Portland, OR

Sunil Kappagoda, Hillsborough, CA

Michael Keiser, Chicago, IL

Irv Kessler, Paradise Valley, AZ

Steve Lapper, Far Hills, NJ

Jeffrey Lewis, New York, NY

Hong-Seh Lim, Los Altos Hills, CA

Gary Lisbon, Malvern East, Victoria, Australia

Brooke Mackenzie, Boulder, CO

Don Mahaffey, Edna, TX

Sally Markiewicz, New York, NY

Ashley Mayo, Nashville, TN

Tom McBroom, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Stephen McHugh, Santa Barbara, CA

David McLay Kidd, Bend, OR

Adam Messix, Cashiers, NC

Lukas Michel, Oakleigh South, Victoria, Australia

Kelly Miller, Southern Pines, NC

Adrian Mitchell, Kew, England

David Morgan, Inver Grove Heights, MN

Adrian Morrow, Dublin, Ireland

Angela Moser, Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany

Kristel Mourgue D’Algue-Lawton, Bordeaux, France

Nick Mullen, Morristown, NJ

Kotaro Nakamoto, Kobe, Japan

Greg Nathan, Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Zach Nelson, Hillsborough, CA

Masa Nishijima, Tokyo, Japan

Derek Oakey, Atlanta, GA

Sang Jun Oh, Seoul, Korea

Michael Pelliccione, Basking Ridge, NJ

Hal Phillips, New Gloucester, ME

Pete Phipps, Raleigh, NC

Lawrence Place, Scottsdale, AZ

Mike Policano, Glen Rock, NJ

Frank Pont, Den Dolder, Netherlands

John Preschlack, Chicago, IL

Tyler Rae, Wilmington, DE

Bob Ranum, Wachesaw, SC

Luke Reese, Boulder, CO

Mitch Reese, Vero Beach, FL

Javier Reviriego, Cádiz, Spain

Paul Rudovsky, Milton, MA

Josh Sens, Oakland, CA

Sho Tobari, Tokyo, Japan

Jim Urbina, Littleton, CO

Chick Wagner, Oakmont, PA

Peter Webster, Dublin, Ireland

Andrew White, Bahamas

Par Widmark, Båstad, Sweden

Peter Wood, Lower Plenty, Victoria, Australia

David Wuthrich, Houston, TX International in blue above: 35 of the 109 which is 32% I count 7 of the panelists as female, but that could be wrong as I'm not sure of first names in some cases.

[Tom_Doak]

I spent some time with David Wuthrich this past week, and had no idea he was on the GOLF Magazine panel.


That's the kind of panelist you want!

[Jeff Schley]

GM - EDIT NEEDED
https://golf.com/travel/top-100-golf-courses-world-by-country/
You list only 11 courses in Scotland, but I won't tell any fellow members, that you left off Royal Dornoch!

[Tommy Williamsen]

I spent some time with David Wuthrich this past week, and had no idea he was on the GOLF Magazine panel.


That's the kind of panelist you want!

He just was added a month ago or so. Good guy.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I spent some time with David Wuthrich this past week, and had no idea he was on the GOLF Magazine panel.


That's the kind of panelist you want!

Not to be argumentative but what “kind of panelist do you want?”


Is it important to have panelists that think similarly or have a wide range of likes and dislikes?

[Ally Mcintosh]

The kind of panelist that doesn’t advertise that they’re a panelist is surely what Tom meant?

[Tom_Doak]

The kind of panelist that doesn’t advertise that they’re a panelist is surely what Tom meant?

Yes

[JStewart]

Some notable moves (credit to UKGolfGuy.com for before/after)


- Oakland Hills up 41 to 31 (picture is pre-restoration)
- Baltustrol from unranked to 57
- Inverness up 16 to 65
- Myopia up 20 to 72
- Ohoopee up 25 to 73
- Oak Hill from unranked to 76
- Rock Creek up 15 to 84

The Oakland Hills picture is post-restoration. 

[Tom Birkert]

Overall I think this is a very impressive list. Having been incredibly fortunate to play 40 of those listed, it broadly tallies up with some of my thoughts. For a long time I couldn't understand how the likes of Sleepy Hollow and Cal Club were not included.


I'm guessing Yale dropped out due to the shutdown and - assuming the renovation / restoration is successful - I would imagine it would regain a place as it is a spectacular course.


Regarding Pebble, I'm one of those who thinks it not being in the Top 10 is correct. It has possibly the most memorable stretch of holes on the planet in 4 - 10, but several of the rest are clearly not of the same standard. And don't get me started on the bunkers added in the rough on the far side of the fairway on 3, they are a disaster and should be removed immediately.

[Brent Carlson]

Some notable moves (credit to UKGolfGuy.com for before/after)


- Oakland Hills up 41 to 31 (picture is pre-restoration)
- Baltustrol from unranked to 57
- Inverness up 16 to 65
- Myopia up 20 to 72
- Ohoopee up 25 to 73
- Oak Hill from unranked to 76
- Rock Creek up 15 to 84

The Oakland Hills picture is post-restoration.

Yes, it has since been updated.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Proud to be a member of the panel and I think we do good work, given the limitations of the process.  Sometimes when I look at the list I think Ran may not be receiving my ballots, though


Anyway - any course that's ever been on this list is worth playing most likely and I agree with Tom D that the distinctions between courses' particular rankings are pretty meaningless.   


As much as there have been so many great restorations and so many great new courses built, it still feels to me like there are 50 unequivocally great courses out there and another 100-150 that could conceivably be in that second 50.   I think we all know when we are on one of those upper tier courses that we are having a very special experience. 

[Tom_Doak]

As much as there have been so many great restorations and so many great new courses built, it still feels to me like there are 50 unequivocally great courses out there and another 100-150 that could conceivably be in that second 50.   I think we all know when we are on one of those upper tier courses that we are having a very special experience.

That was Pete Dye's feeling, too, and he filled out his ballot exactly in that manner back in the day.  [Or, Alice did it for him.]


One thing I do not like in the way the voting is now set up is that the computer ballot forces you to make cut-offs at your top 3, top 10, 25th, 50th, etc.  If I think there are five perfect courses, I can't vote them equally, unless I skip the top 3 entirely and put only those five into the top 10.


The advantage of the Doak Scale is that the grade for one course has no bearing on others.

[Jeff_Lewis]

It would be interesting to see what the list looks like if we could use 1-10 or 1-100 for each course. We are giving the same vote to courses of which we may have pretty divergent views. 

[Anthony Gray]

Can someone confirm/deny that Diamante (Dunes) made changes to the back nine to accommodate building a hotel?  Did they just remove a hole and add a new one or did they make massive changes.  This seems similar to Shanqin Bay but instead of the government it was a large hotel company.


That would explain the major drop in the rankings.

 I would love to know the answer to this. I played it the year it opened and loved it. The layout had perfect level of uniqueness. Tons of eye candy and one of those course you could describe every hole after the first time y-u played it. Free sliders on the driving range and rock and roll on the speakers. You just knew everything about that round was going to fantastic. It was a 10 on the fun scale. What went wrong?


Anthony

[Paul Jones]

Can someone confirm/deny that Diamante (Dunes) made changes to the back nine to accommodate building a hotel?  Did they just remove a hole and add a new one or did they make massive changes.  This seems similar to Shanqin Bay but instead of the government it was a large hotel company.


That would explain the major drop in the rankings.

 I would love to know the answer to this. I played it the year it opened and loved it. The layout had perfect level of uniqueness. Tons of eye candy and one of those course you could describe every hole after the first time y-u played it. Free sliders on the driving range and rock and roll on the speakers. You just knew everything about that round was going to fantastic. It was a 10 on the fun scale. What went wrong?


Anthony

Anthony,


I just played Diamante (Dunes) with a long time member.  They did change the back nine quite a bit.  The original 10th hole was a Par 5 and now broken into a short Par 3 10th hole and and Par 4 11th hole.  The also gave the land that was the original 11-12 to Tiger Woods Design to build a short course.  The 12th hole is the original 13th, which is a great uphill par 3.  Then created 2 additional holes - 13th Par 5 dogleg right and returning 14th short Par 4 dogleg left.  The member hates those holes, the remaining holes are the same minus the missing 18th hole, which is odd since the course finished pretty far from the clubhouse.  The green site of the original 18th is now a Putting Course.  The member said his favorite hole was the 18th and now it is gone.  I cannot comment since I never played the original course, but 10th hole and finishing on old 17th does seem out of place.  It is still a really good course, but it sounds like it use to be even better.

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