[Kevin Pallier]

The new list is out here

http://golf.com/travel/courses/top-100-courses-world-ranking-2021-2022/

Thoughts?

[Brent Carlson]

Some notable moves (credit to UKGolfGuy.com for before/after)


- Oakland Hills up 41 to 31 (picture is pre-restoration)
- Baltustrol from unranked to 57
- Inverness up 16 to 65
- Myopia up 20 to 72
- Ohoopee up 25 to 73
- Oak Hill from unranked to 76
- Rock Creek up 15 to 84

[Cal Seifert]

NGLA was fractions of a point away from jumping ahead of Shinnecock and getting to 4th.

[Rob Marshall]

Pretty amazing that you can get 4 in the top 36 with no access issues within what I would guess would be a 4 hour drive.


Some day I need someone to explain to me what makes the Ocean Course so great. I only played it once but it went right over my head.

[Kevin Pallier]

Some notable moves (credit to UKGolfGuy.com for before/after)

- Oakland Hills up 41 to 31 (picture is pre-restoration)
- Baltustrol from unranked to 57
- Inverness up 16 to 65
- Myopia up 20 to 72
- Ohoopee up 25 to 73
- Oak Hill from unranked to 76
- Rock Creek up 15 to 84

There's a couple of others the other way
Casa -16 to 75
Olympic Lake -17 to 96
Diamante -28 to 98
The Golf Club -16  to 100


Out altogether

TPC Sawgrass (Stadium)

Yale University

Barnbougle (Lost Farm)

Walton Heath (Old)

Machrihanish

Waterville

Trump Scotland

[Tim Martin]

Some notable moves (credit to UKGolfGuy.com for before/after)


- Oakland Hills up 41 to 31 (picture is pre-restoration)
- Baltustrol from unranked to 57
- Inverness up 16 to 65
- Myopia up 20 to 72
- Ohoopee up 25 to 73
- Oak Hill from unranked to 76
- Rock Creek up 15 to 84

Andrew Green adds Oak Hill East to Inverness both sharing design credit with Donald Ross.

[Ira Fishman]

I took a quick walk through the list of raters. It does not surprise me that it has evolved to reflect Ran's philosophy. After all, he gets to choose. But there are quite a few--including Tom Doak--who profess that Rankings are meaningless subjective exercises. I agree with that fact.


Ira

[Kevin Pallier]

there are quite a few--including Tom Doak--who profess that Rankings are meaningless subjective exercises. I agree with that fact.

Ira

Ira


Isn't that an opinion by the use of the word "meaningless"?


I agree with the subjective bit.

[Mark_Fine]

These “meaningless” rankings are what put most architects on the map.  No question they are very subjective but like them or hate them they are extremely impactful to golfers and golf course architecture.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I took a quick walk through the list of raters. It does not surprise me that it has evolved to reflect Ran's philosophy. After all, he gets to choose. But there are quite a few--including Tom Doak--who profess that Rankings are meaningless subjective exercises. I agree with that fact.


Ira

Yet, Tom is not afraid to tout his rankings on his website.

[Jeff Schley]

Wow time flies as I didn't realize it was 2 years already. Seems Covid caused us to forget and prioritize alot of things. For the Tara Iti photo are those threes on the left real? I have never been there yet, but they look like a Bob Ross painting perfect and uniform.

[Michael Chadwick]

Three cheers for raters with double digit handicaps!

What interests me when I look at rankings is identifying which courses aren't on it. A friend brought up a similar point to me this evening, that the final 30-40 World 100 slots could quite reasonably be filled by 100+ notable courses, and any selection would be met with approval and grumblings. How do you statistically distinguish places like Yeaman's Hall, Peachtree, Old Town, and Les Bordes New against courses like Royal Aberdeen, Porthcawl, Plainfield, Capilano, or Valley Club?

I'm no list chaser myself, but my travel itineraries do benefit greatly from being able to use the Confidential Guide, Golf, Golfweek, and top100golfcourses.com as tools to assemble my own priority tiers of courses in specific regions. No matter how fraught ranking methodologies and panelist bias may be, lists nonetheless hold significant value for itinerant golfers, course architects, course developers, and beyond. We should be glad there are multiple ones at our disposal.     

[Sean_A]

It seems to me that there can't be more than a few handfuls of people who have seen enough of the world's best courses to have a properly informed opinion. By enough I am talking about something like 250 of the 300ish top candidates. So this list is a big leap of faith unless all the panelists are that well travelled. All that said, I am surprised Old Town made the list. I have long thought it better than rankings gave it credit for. But it is quite something for an old no exterior views course to climb miles up the rankings these past ten years and land itself amongst tons of beautiful property darlings.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

I’d like to see stated alongside the name of each of these courses the annual maintenance budget and the number of full-time and seasonal staff employed on the maintenance crew.
Just saying.

Atb

[Sean_A]

I’d like to see stated alongside the name of each of these courses the annual maintenance budget and the number of full-time and seasonal staff employed on the maintenance crew.
Just saying.

Atb

That would be great added info which might keep members of less salubrious clubs more in tune with reality.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

I’d like to see stated alongside the name of each of these courses the annual maintenance budget and the number of full-time and seasonal staff employed on the maintenance crew.
Just saying.

Atb

1. How would the magazines source this info?


and then


2. Why would the clubs divulge it?

[Niall C]

3. - who outside a very few would be interested ?

and

4. - what benefit would it be other than possibly start another arms war as clubs try to out spend each other ?

Niall

[Ira Fishman]

there are quite a few--including Tom Doak--who profess that Rankings are meaningless subjective exercises. I agree with that fact.

Ira

Ira


Isn't that an opinion by the use of the word "meaningless"?


I agree with the subjective bit.

Kevin,


I agree that meaningless was a poor choice of word. I meant to capture that the rankings make arbitrary distinctions among courses and that any formula provides a false sense of objectivity. The views and tastes of the panel are the key factor. I happen to share the direction of those tastes regarding GM, but one can either view gpa.com as influencing the criteria for best courses or note that the panel has changed to reflect gpa.com philosophy. The truth is probably a combination.


And I enjoy reading the rankings; I just do not put too much stock in them in terms of sorting out which among strong courses is better than the others.


Ira

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
I just played Old Town Club on Monday and it is truly a special golf course.  The scale of the property and the massive undulation changes in the terrain is what most surprised me for an old golf course.  Augusta National has evaluation changes but I believe Old Town Club has more.  What C&C did there is pretty incredible.  They not only restored much of the Maxwell design they added to it to make it much better. 


Michael,
You wouldn’t know what is not on the lists if there weren’t lists to begin with.  This site talks about “lists” more than any body does.  I bet in about half or more of our threads we are talking about lists.  Now we are suggesting a list of maintenance budgets.  Good luck finding that out That said they are very important as conditioning does have a huge impact on GCA, more than we most would admit.  Most panelists have as pointed out not seen enough and when they get to a beautifully conditioned and landscaped golf course it gets notched up.  Sometimes is should and sometimes not. But it is all subjective as are most lists. 

I am having drinks tomorrow night with Ran after playing #2.  We will have a good chat about all of this stuff.  Trust me on this; Ran’s own Top 100 list, my Top 100 list and GM’s Top 100 list and everyone else’s are all different but that is what makes it fun. It’s subjective and ALWAYS will be.  This is no correct list and unfortunately only 100 slots for hundreds of deserving courses. 

[Sean_A]

Sean,
I just played Old Town Club on Monday and it is truly a special golf course.  The scale of the property and the massive undulation changes in the terrain is what most surprised me for an old golf course.  Augusta National has evaluation changes but I believe Old Town Club has more.  What C&C did there is pretty incredible.  They not only restored much of the Maxwell design they added to it to make it much better. 

You are signing to the choir. That said, I think of Old Town as rolling, not anywhere near massive undulation changes. It never entered my mind to even think of the elevation changes there as something worth measuring. I am used to playing a lot of hilltop courses 

Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
We both seem to agree but yet another good example of subjective opinions.  I definitely would describe Old Town as much more then “rolling” terrain.  There are serious hill climbs and descents.  Would you describe Augusta National as rolling terrain? Is the walk down 10 and up 18 rolling

[Sean_A]

Sean,
We both seem to agree but yet another good example of subjective opinions.  I definitely would describe Old Town as much more then “rolling” terrain.  There are serious hill climbs and descents.  Would you describe Augusta National as rolling terrain? Is the walk down 10 and up 18 rolling

I think of ANGC as more hilly than Old Town. I don't recall any seriously uphill shots at OT. 5, 9, 16 & 18 are uphill, but no more than hundreds or thousands of holes. Do you know the up and down measurement for OT? Honestly, the walk is fine, never gave it a second thought. Its nowhere near as severe Roaring Gap, which I was shocked to find so hilly because nobody ever mentioned it.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Is it worth discussing why a significant majority of British & Irish courses went down in the rankings with four falling out (two brand new ones coming in)?

[jeffwarne]

Is it worth discussing why a significant majority of British & Irish courses went down in the rankings with four falling out (two brand new ones coming in)?

Gil Hanse didn't renovate 75 of them?

[Jeff Schley]

Is it worth discussing why a significant majority of British & Irish courses went down in the rankings with four falling out (two brand new ones coming in)?

I'd like to, however is there a list that shows last year's ranking vs. this years?  I can't find it and they haven't put previous ranking next to this years. Hard to compare without alot of effort.

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