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A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2021, 11:01:22 AM »
The answer to the question depends on what the question means, and that isn't clear at all, at least to me.  And a lot of the answers, since they involve courses I've never seen, don't help me understand either the question or the POV of the answers.  So, since I just got back from Streamsong, and since there are at least some similarities between the sites, I'll just use Streamsong.


The question COULD mean making use of an unusual site, such as the old quarry site that is TR.  In which case, the Blue course at Streamsong seems a much better comparison than the Black.  When you have to walk up to the first tee at the Blue course, it's a little bit hard to believe that you're in central FL, given that the highest point in the whole state is less than 400' above sea level.  Much like the first hole at TR, or the 13th green, I don't think much dirt had to be moved to do that.


The question COULD mean a course that looks much harder than it actually plays tee to green, and then provides tremendously varied greens that are wildly fun to putt, in which case the Black course is a much better comparison to TR than the Blue.

The question COULD mean a course than generates a "love it or hate it" reaction, in which the best answer at Streamsong would again be the Black, but since I dearly, dearly love Tobacco Rd, and dearly loved each of the Streamsong courses, I'm a very poor candidate to answer that question.

But above all else, the key point to me is that there just isn't anything really comparable to The Road except in somewhat superficial ways.  This course or that course is similar, but more is NOT similar at pretty much any course you can name.  Even Mike Strantz's other courses are only similar; when speaking to people that haven't played it, I always refer to True Blue at Tobacco Road at the beach, but that is VERY superficial and therefore limited. 


Here in NC, #2 and #4 have visual similarities because of the sand and waste areas, but the greens couldn't be more different than TR's greens.  Southern Pines is probably now a better comparison than either #2 or #4, but still not perfect by any means.

This won't be a surprise to anybody, but I feel a bit sorry for those of you that don't like Tobacco Rd, if that's your perspective in answering this thread.  I can't get enough of the place, perhaps in large part because I've never seen anything like it.  I just laugh the whole time because it's so exciting to me, and I've had great rounds there, and I've had rounds where I wasn't sure I would have enough golf balls to finish. 


So I suppose my final answer is that it's a BS question.  Sorry...
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2021, 11:08:35 AM »
I like TR. Get over it.


I’m an asphalt guy and it’s built on asphalt land.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2021, 12:27:17 PM »
AG,

I think you've missed it a bit here.  I'm pretty sure John left this thread intentionally vague, like many of his other posts.

But there-in lies part of the genius.  When you look at something like Religion, a million people can read the Bible and come up with a million different interpretations and questions. Humans gravitate towards problem solving and the the ones that often engage us the most are both compelling and unsolvable.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2021, 01:53:45 PM »
I enjoy this thread as I have never played a course that has gotten so many mixed results.  It is all in the eyes of the beholder on what they compare the course to.  People that it is a favorite, they might list another favorite.  People that feel it is goofy, they might list another goofy course, etc.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2021, 02:09:13 PM »
Furry Creek is the Tobacco Road of the north-of-Vancouver area in British Columbia. Everyone told me that I should 'at least play it once'. I relented, and finally did. Once was enough. I might even say that once was more than enough. I don't care that they filmed a Bob Barker scene from Happy Gilmore there. Also, even as a kid I didn't like carnivals, amusement park rides, and especially clowns -- so I certainly don't need that kind of aggressive over-stimulation out on a golf course.


Edward Glidewell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2021, 02:31:01 PM »
Maybe the Creek Club in Georgia?

I've never played it, but I know people who have and it's apparently kind of wild.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2021, 02:35:47 PM »
Furry Creek is the Tobacco Road of the north-of-Vancouver area in British Columbia. Everyone told me that I should 'at least play it once'. I relented, and finally did. Once was enough. I might even say that once was more than enough. I don't care that they filmed a Bob Barker scene from Happy Gilmore there. Also, even as a kid I didn't like carnivals, amusement park rides, and especially clowns -- so I certainly don't need that kind of aggressive over-stimulation out on a golf course.


https://youtu.be/mRP_uMWFueY

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2021, 03:35:10 PM »

This is correct.

Pinehurst #4 is the Tobacco Road of North Carolina.


I was going to say Tot Hill Farm is the Tobacco Road of NC!

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2021, 06:02:11 PM »
Mossy Oak - Mississippi
French Lick Dye - Indiana (replacing Wolf Run)
The Patriot - Oklahoma, although the front 9 at Oak Tree National is a good choice
Old Toccoa Farm - Georgia
The Harvester - Iowa, although Waveland would be another good choice
Kingsley Club - Michigan


For Wisconsin I want to say the original set up of Erin Hills.  I like it better now, but the smaller green on 2, Dell Hole and Biarritz green at the end of the then par 5 10th were more polarizing (interesting)?


I need to think a bit about Texas, but initial thoughts are Black Jack Crossing, Trinity Forest, The PGA Frisco Hanse course and maybe the Rawls Course.  Haven't played Wolf Point.  Maybe some other Texas guys will weigh in.


Doug Bolls

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2021, 06:44:23 PM »
I just took a look through the courses I've played in TX and come up with Trinity Forest.  It's sooo different from anything else in the state.  I know the pros didn't like as a tournament course, but I just love what Coore and Crenshaw did there.  Have not seen Black Jack Crossing.


In Washington, I would put in a vote for Gamble Sands - it's big and wild.  I guess it's the grandeur of the place up against the big hills, the unusual bunkering and the movement in the greens that reminds me of something Strantz would have enjoyed doing.  Can't wait to play out there again.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2021, 07:04:10 PM »
Oakmont is the TR of Pa.
AKA Mayday

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2021, 07:27:35 PM »
Oakmont is the TR of Pa.


Stonewall North is the Tobacco Road of PA
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2021, 07:35:38 PM »
Oakmont is the TR of Pa.


ANGC is the TR of Georgia...

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2021, 08:34:13 PM »
I just played Tobacco Road again today and with all due respect, there is nothing else out there that I have ever played that is like this golf course.  Yes there are some wild and bizarre holes out there on other courses but not 18 of them like at Tobacco  Road.  It is in a league of its own.  I love it! 

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2021, 08:40:39 PM »
Oregon Golf Club is the TR of OR.

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2021, 08:48:02 PM »
It is in a league of its own.  I love it!


Totally agree.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2021, 11:03:38 PM »
Oak Quarry Golf Club near Riverside and Hidden Valley Golf Club near Norco are the TR's of SO CA. Definitely outside the box and fun to play while being different than most other courses you will see and very memorable.
Yoche Dehe Golf Club at Cache Creek north of Sacramento would be the TR of NO CAL.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2021, 11:18:55 PM »
Oak Quarry Golf Club near Riverside and Hidden Valley Golf Club near Norco are the TR's of SO CA. Definitely outside the box and fun to play while being different than most other courses you will see and very memorable.
Yoche Dehe Golf Club at Cache Creek north of Sacramento would be the TR of NO CAL.
Yes good ones Tim, played both several times and they are distinguished for both their quirk "come play the rock" and in HV case things that have transpired off the course.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Doug Bolls

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2021, 11:35:52 PM »
So, I agree with Oak Quarry as a different kind of SoCal course.  Not so much Hidden Valley - looks a lot like Coyote Hills in Fullerton for instance - just another course in the foothills I think.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2021, 07:58:23 AM »
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2021, 08:12:43 AM »
Is this thread the Tobacco Road of Golf Club Atlas threads? ;D


Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2021, 09:19:12 AM »
Oakmont is the TR of Pa.


Stonewall North is the Tobacco Road of PA

I'd nominate the Inniscrone as the TR of the Keystone State (well, before it was softened).
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2021, 01:11:42 PM »
Oakmont is the TR of Pa.


ANGC is the TR of Georgia...


Sorry Kalen, but in my sophomoric opinion yours is the most inaccurate post I've read on this site in the pat 20 years. 


All the best, nonetheless.


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2021, 01:22:27 PM »
Oak Quarry Golf Club near Riverside and Hidden Valley Golf Club near Norco are the TR's of SO CA. Definitely outside the box and fun to play while being different than most other courses you will see and very memorable.
Yoche Dehe Golf Club at Cache Creek north of Sacramento would be the TR of NO CAL.
Kind of agree with Oak Quarry but Hidden Valley just sucks (literally that one time). Played HV about 4 times and barely remember a hole although I did see a coyote and an eagle fighting over a rabbit carcass there once, which was pretty cool.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Dan Smoot

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Tobacco Road of....
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2021, 02:35:20 PM »
I finally played Tobacco Road in April.  I found the Fossil Trace comparison a little difficult.  I have not so pleasant memories of that site since it was the location of an undergraduate geology field session many years prior to a golf course being built on it.  The existing course is good and unique but Tobacco Road is so much better.  I probably can't get past the college experience.  It used to be a mining site for the Coors family in their Ceramics business.

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