[Jason Thurman]

I called Niall's question in another thread ridiculous, but he might be making a point. I just don't happen to be one of those guys who takes until he's standing on the approach to 8 to go "Yep, this place kicks ass."


For me, personally, the first thing that made me woozy was kicking the sneakers off in the parking lot, throwing the golf shoes on the ground, and looking up to see 18 green and fairway trailing away from me.

Then I had to call my bank to verify the charge on my debit card. Note to all you young small town kids like me out there - don't show up to your first >$110 golf experience with a debit card.

But like, those are punches I'll block next time...

[Rob Marshall]

I walked into the lobby at the Lodge to check in and immediately got hit by the view out the huge window of the 18th green with the pacific in the background. Walked right by the check in counter and went out on the balcony. It didn’t even look real.

[Dan_Callahan]

I loved everything about Pebble, and I didn’t think there was a weak hole on the course. But it was the second shot on the 6th hole where I thought “I have never seen anything like this in my life.”

[Matthew Rose]

Tee shot at #6 was the moment I went "I can't believe I'm actually here". And the next 60 minutes were like a dream.

[Kevin_Reilly]

When you say "oh my" to your youngest son's shot!


https://youtu.be/YybDxLkPE5s

[Adrian_Stiff]

I was the other way I thought a lot of PB was very very average.


It does have 6 awesome holes though which takes it into the 'great' category.


1st hole ...very resorty technically okay but no wow; 2nd hole I liked; 3rd hole average; 4 awesome; 5 I played that old one which was pretty crap, 6 I did not rate as you don't really get the view. 7 awesome, 8 awesome 9 awesome 10 awesome 11 very average, 12 poor hole, 13 quite nice, 14 hated the reverse camber and dreadfull green, 15 average, 16 quite nice, 17 very disappointed as you just see sky 18 awesome.  I think if I played again the new 5 and 6 would get an upgrade.

[Niall C]

Jason

I thought your scoring idea was an excellent one. It was the comparison of PB to Tyson that threw me. In my one and only play at PB I thought it was a great experience, a great day but not particularly a great course although certainly a very good one. Having taken the advice on here to get an early tee-time we'd managed to book the first tee-time in the morning and arrived when it was still pitch black so didn't get that initial experience that you did.

That said, I actually thought the first hole was one of the better ones even though it doesn't have the back drop that the ocean front ones do. The next few holes were good as well and then we got to the short par 3 7th (?) where I'd been expecting to be blown away and in all honesty I was disappointed. Once you've had a look round and enjoyed the view, the hole itself is rather ordinary. I've seen photos taken from up near the 6th green and I think if you had a tee further back left in that direction it would be a much much better hole playing to the green at an angle and would I think bring the water more into play. Of course that might impact the skyline playing to the 6th green and therefore be unacceptable ?

Overall I enjoyed the course but just not sure which hole had the killer punch.

Niall

[Jason Thurman]

I was the other way I thought a lot of PB was very very average.


It does have 6 awesome holes though which takes it into the 'great' category.


1st hole ...very resorty technically okay but no wow; 2nd hole I liked; 3rd hole average; 4 awesome; 5 I played that old one which was pretty crap, 6 I did not rate as you don't really get the view. 7 awesome, 8 awesome 9 awesome 10 awesome 11 very average, 12 poor hole, 13 quite nice, 14 hated the reverse camber and dreadfull green, 15 average, 16 quite nice, 17 very disappointed as you just see sky 18 awesome.  I think if I played again the new 5 and 6 would get an upgrade.

Ok, so this is a very good example of what NOT to do with this thread.


I know that we have a whole group of forum members who don't get Pebble, and take enormous pride in mentioning just how unenthused it leaves them. And I respect it. I've had fun having that debate on every single Pebble Beach thread for the last 25 years.


But this thread is not for general glossing over of your overall opinion on the golf course so that we can retread those same tractor-tire-deep ruts.


I am asking, specifically which haymaker lands first for you.

[Kyle Harris]

The fact that there are hundreds of golf courses I'd rather play 10+ times than Pebble once.

[jeffwarne]

The fact that there are hundreds of golf courses I'd rather play 10+ times than Pebble once.

Please IM me a list!
I wanted and somewhat expected to be disappointed by Pebble.
Played it in February 15 years ago or so-teed off around 11:30.
Never waited a shot ,never saw the group behind us on a 65 degree cloudless day.
I was wowed-far more than I expected. but perhaps my expectations were set somewhat low from all I had heard about conditioning, pace of play, inland holes etc.
To answer the question, I think as soon as I turned the corner on #1 after a mundane housing constrained tee shot.The rest of the holes, if you see something you don't love, you simply can look the other direction and be wowed-and I was.

[Kyle Harris]

The fact that there are hundreds of golf courses I'd rather play 10+ times than Pebble once.

Please IM me a list!
I wanted and somewhat expected to be disappointed by Pebble.
Played it in February 15 years ago or so-teed off around 11:30.
Never waited a shot ,never saw the group behind us on a 65 degree cloudless day.
I was wowed-far more than I expected. but perhaps my expectations were set somewhat low from all I had heard about conditioning, pace of play, inland holes etc.
To answer the question, I think as soon as I turned the corner on #1 after a mundane housing constrained tee shot.The rest of the holes, if you see something you don't love, you simply can look the other direction and be wowed-and I was.

That's not necessarily a knock on Pebble Beach but rather demand pricing and the decisions some golfers are willing to make. Such is a free market. I hope to get to the point in my life where Pebble Beach is worth the Opportunity Cost.

[Robert Kimball]

Hell, driving into the place got me going!  The roads in go literally next to the golf holes. 3 tee box and of course 17 are right there.


Not sure why, but I loved it from the minute we drove in. 

[JLahrman]

I loved everything about Pebble, and I didn’t think there was a weak hole on the course. But it was the second shot on the 6th hole where I thought “I have never seen anything like this in my life.”

For sure, the second shot on 6 (assuming you hit a good tee shot). I do appreciate the overrated/wouldn't be good without the ocean/lots of other places I'd rather play viewpoint, but there are some killer holes and shots out there. Second shot on 6 would be incredible even if the cliff fell off into a landfill instead of the Pacific Ocean.

[Josh Bills]

I would tend to agree the whole experience was pretty amazing.  But what stands out for me as the first haymaker, other than the beautiful pro shop and entry sign, was the claustrophobic tightness on the 4th tee, that proceeds to open up into (at the time I was there in 2008) the iconic tree behind 6 and the great vistas of the course for the first time.  I was awestruck. 


Here are my photos from 2008:

[Jason Thurman]

To answer the question, I think as soon as I turned the corner on #1 after a mundane housing constrained tee shot.The rest of the holes, if you see something you don't love, you simply can look the other direction and be wowed-and I was.

Back when I was giving Niall the benefit of the doubt, I thought he might be making the point that Tyson knocked guys out early and often, whereas Pebble's biggest punches come in rounds 6-10, 17, and 18. Which would've been a fair quibble to my comparing it to early Tyson while advocating for boxing scoring over match play when evaluating courses.


But Jeff makes a point that I kept coming back to. There's something on damn near every hole on that course that connects, and as other guys are mentioning, also punches that connect prior to even getting onto the course.


That whole pro shop/practice green/first tee connection is one-of-a-kind. As soon as I'm staring at the backside of the first tee as I arrive "inside the arena," I realize "I'd rather be here than 70% of courses I've played."


And that funky benched first green? Take the number up to 80%.


The barranca on 2, rounding the corner on 3... awesome stuff.


But Josh calls out a hell of an early knockout blow. Like, I don't love the way Pebble feints around 3 green. There's a lot of concrete and infrastructure in that area, for sure. So when you step out into the heart of hole 4, the reveal of the bay and 6 looming in the distance doesn't have the same elegance of arriving in 3 fairway at Bandon Trails and realizing that you're surrounded by a whole new type of nature than everything you've seen since arriving on the premises.


But that lack of elegance almost makes the punch more devastating. You go from "damn that's a nice beach club" to "yikes holy crap this isn't a fair fight" instantly. If you're talking about the hundreds of courses you'd rather play 10+ times at that moment, I'm throwing the towel and getting you examined for a head injury.

[Jason Topp]

The tee shot on 3 for me.  You need to pick a line and hit it and the magic of the setting starts to be revealed.


Biggest letdown - tee shot on 17.  Such an iconic hole viewed from a television tower but on the ground its glory is hidden.

[Gib_Papazian]

Before providence and circumstance smacked me down a few notches, I was spoiled enough to grow up playing Pebble (and the rest of the neighborhood) several times a year, so my earliest recollections are going round & round Peter Hay before an afternoon round across the street.


I hate #1, but really because I lost a playoff there in 1981 - at a fabulous partners tournament - within 5 minutes of when my former high school teammate (with Joby Ross, also on the team) rolled that 30 footer onto the Havemeyer Trophy - on my home course no less.


We watched their tee shots in the Pebble Pro Shop when our Tournament Chair came and called me to the tee. Why I tried to jump on an adrenaline fueled 9-iron instead of the same feathered 8 I hit nearly every time is a mystery, but so is the reason I married my ex-wife.


The haymaker that still punches me in the face - although I dearly love the architecture starting on #2 tee - starts on the 4th green above Stillwater Cove.


Throw in the Beach Club veranda below - lined with beautiful girls, sipping mimosas - as the gentle mist wanders off the water . . . . well, if that is not Heaven, come up with a better one.   
 
   



 

[Mike Wagner]

The fact that there are hundreds of golf courses I'd rather play 10+ times than Pebble once.

Please IM me a list!
I wanted and somewhat expected to be disappointed by Pebble.
Played it in February 15 years ago or so-teed off around 11:30.
Never waited a shot ,never saw the group behind us on a 65 degree cloudless day.
I was wowed-far more than I expected. but perhaps my expectations were set somewhat low from all I had heard about conditioning, pace of play, inland holes etc.
To answer the question, I think as soon as I turned the corner on #1 after a mundane housing constrained tee shot.The rest of the holes, if you see something you don't love, you simply can look the other direction and be wowed-and I was.

That's not necessarily a knock on Pebble Beach but rather demand pricing and the decisions some golfers are willing to make. Such is a free market. I hope to get to the point in my life where Pebble Beach is worth the Opportunity Cost.

Oh sigh ... what you think about others decisions is irrelevant.  The place is awesome and expensive. God bless the free market.


First haymaker is being on the first tee .. there's nothing like it.

[JMEvensky]

I'll say middle of 4 fairway when you get past the building (Beach Club?) and see the water to your right. Plus I'm a sucker for short uphill 4-pars and that's one of my favorites.

[John Mayhugh]

I loved everything about Pebble, and I didn’t think there was a weak hole on the course. But it was the second shot on the 6th hole where I thought “I have never seen anything like this in my life.”

For sure, the second shot on 6 (assuming you hit a good tee shot). I do appreciate the overrated/wouldn't be good without the ocean/lots of other places I'd rather play viewpoint, but there are some killer holes and shots out there. Second shot on 6 would be incredible even if the cliff fell off into a landfill instead of the Pacific Ocean.

Add me to this list. Must be seen to be believed.

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting. It feels like I'm reading a head-to-head and hole-by-hole matchplay/comparison, but with only ONE course and with the other course missing -- ie it's Pebble Beach against ITSELF. And I wonder if that isn't in fact the way we ACTUALLY experience -- and rate -- the golf courses we play, despite all our palaver about elegant routings and engaging narratives and varied pace. If so, it explains why many a fine architect is so loathe to sacrifice even ONE great (or merely a very good) golf hole for the sake of a more 'flowing' experience or shorter walk from the clubhouse to the first tee. They know that, in truth, it's ALL about the golf holes, head-to-head and match-play style, and that if you can manage to squeeze in 8 or so top flight golf holes into your course, everything else (including HIGH PRAISE) will take care of itself.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm not a fan of the first hole either but when you stand and look at that green its so small you really have to question, are all the greens this small and can I hit a green that's this small for 18 holes?  I also applaud the superintendent knowing they are full everyday yet the conditions of the greens are very good.

[Jeff Schley]

As a young 20 something playing PB for the first time on March 1, 2001 for the long ago "saver rate" of $185 at 12:50 pm IIRC I was nervously excited as soon as I went through the 17 mile drive check in gate. I realized heck people have to pay to get through if you aren't playing golf?  Wow. I'm too familiar with toll roads as are my Chicago colleagues, but it was expensive back then for 17 mile drive and more so now, no doubt.

I was so pumped up at the first tee on my first play with everyone milling around and the thought of, "holy cow I'm at PB!" I choose 5 wood so I wouldn't spray one to regions unknown. Back then I had the kodak disposable camera (how far we have come huh?) and was saving some for 7, 8, 18. Glad I did. If we are finding faults in PB we aren't enjoying the positives enough. Public and expensive, but as Johnny Miller said in a promo video back in 2000 IIRC, "Everyone should play it, save up your money or whatever, but it is something you will never forget." 

[Niall C]

Hopefully this doesn't seem too snidey but what I take from this thread is how important the backdrop, framing and view are to a lot of people in judging the quality of a hole, or perhaps the discussion has moved on to the general experience rather than the quality of the holes ?

Niall

[JLahrman]

I'm not a fan of the first hole either but when you stand and look at that green its so small you really have to question, are all the greens this small and can I hit a green that's this small for 18 holes?

That's what struck me on the first green too. PS, they are and I couldn't.

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