News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Your Architect is Away for a Year
« on: November 19, 2021, 09:52:09 AM »
Question for the club members on the board...

What if your golf course designer gave you 3 years notice that he or she would not be available for most of that year ....

Would you work around their schedule?
Would you question their dedication to your club and look for someone else?
Would you admire them pursuing something meaningful to them and wait their return.

How would you react to that news.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2021, 10:01:34 AM »
I'm at Penfield CC. I'm on the greens committee not our board.


I think we would work around your schedule. We have no question as to your dedication and appreciate everything you have done for our club. We value your vision. IMO we would not look for anyone else. We would wait for your return.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2021, 10:15:04 AM »
I would wonder we why anyone would think we would need our consulting architect available every single year.   Anything that needed to be done that year could be done the year before or year after.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2021, 10:33:55 AM »
I would probably ask them for some extra documentation of planned projects if we decided it had to be pursued during that year so that our super and preferred contractor could carry those projects out.  Most long term plans have a variety of elements to them, many of which are to be carried out in house, and it might be possible just to work around that year.  Sometimes, things must be done in a specific order, and that might be a problem if he/she is gone for that particular year.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2021, 10:42:44 AM »
How many courses have consulting architects on retainer?  The top 100 list and then the next 50-100?  Can’t be that many after that…right?

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2021, 11:25:24 AM »
How many courses have consulting architects on retainer?  The top 100 list and then the next 50-100?  Can’t be that many after that…right?


Not many retainers in golf.


For me, sometimes hourly, mostly daily and occasionally a lump sum contract on a large project.
Almost all my work is a long-term working relationship with a club.
This come with expectations of service from the club.
I personally think I have some responsibility to them for being a long-term client.



"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 12:50:24 PM »

Just some thoughts from a guy constantly trying to negotiate a fluid work/life balance situation on the regular.

Question for the club members on the board...

What if your golf course designer gave you 3 years notice that he or she would not be available for most of that year ....


Would you work around their schedule?

- I sure hope most would try - 3 years is an awful lot of notice for anything.
Would you question their dedication to your club and look for someone else?
- I guess it depends on what the reason is. If you are going to be busy working on a big project scheduled that year, I'd hope they would be proud that their guy/gal has something cool going on. Especially if you are trying to re-arrange enough stuff to make sure their needs are met in advance and after. If it is for health or family reasons, I'd hope they understand no matter what, especially so far in advance... If it is to spend a year searching for the holy grail or the meaning of life, its probably a crap shoot, pending the club and individuals who you work with.

I guess some would or wouldn't care what the reason is or even feel obligated to divulge or ask what the reason is. Everyone is different.

Some members will surely feel obligated to carry out their duties as chair person and execute on stuff regardless of who or what or why. In that case there is nothing you can do even though you feel like you've done everything to set this up... Sometimes these people are not who you would expect either.
Would you admire them pursuing something meaningful to them and wait their return.
- I think it is going to be down to that person. People are hard to predict, especially with stuff like this.

Sometimes it feels like work and sometimes you are working with people you want to work with and it feels less like work.

How would you react to that news.


3 years is a lot of notice, I think even if you wanted to spend a year finger painting or living with the monkeys, how bad can your lack of presence for a year make the golf course?




Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 01:32:54 PM »
If they won’t give you that much flexibility after years of service, are they really a client you care about keeping?  😉

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2021, 01:45:49 PM »
Is anyone (besides Gil Hanse) that busy that they couldn’t at least do a half day Microsoft Teams video call and work through with as Jeff said anything you could help them with while you are away. I have a number of clients that I only visit with maybe one or two days a year and they really appreciate the attention.  If one year that time has to be a zoom call I think they would be ok with it (or as Tom said do you really want them as a client). 

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2021, 02:13:38 PM »


What if your golf course designer gave you 3 years notice that he or she would not be available for most of that year ....



How would you react to that news.



Depends on the scope of the work.


What I found interesting is that contractually certain architects name how much (or little time) they will spend on a project. Imagine waiting 2-3 years and the architect only is on site 30 hours total?

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2021, 06:47:17 AM »
I admire the answers that have come so quickly and efficiently.


Fluid is the key word to this decade, it appears.


All I would add is, if the club is hell-bent on replacing "you," this gives it an opportunity to do that. On the coin's opposite face, if you have a great ally/supporter at the club, use them/her/him as your PR person to keep the contract.


Like "you," I love to give my admins a long-term idea of things. Smaller example would be, two of our fraternity brothers have passed on to first tee eternal, and two others had near-death experiences of the It's my own damned fault kind. I've let them know, with reciprocation, that homecoming is not to be missed if possible. It gives that opportunity that, unfortunately, may not be available in a year. I let my admins know that I plan to be in NC as often as permissible, and I bribe my colleagues to cover my classes. If most of our group will not be at school, I take the year off.


Kind of a long-winded way of saying that "you" should accept that overseas job, or go to the auld land and revisit the great old courses, or whatever. Do you, live the dream, however we say it.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 09:08:31 AM »
One scenario I’ve not yet seen on here is the possibility that a client or two may speed up their projects making the time period before your absence even busier.  This could generate business in the short run.  Just be as transparent and early as possible in your communications.


Cost of switching architects is pretty high.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

David Wuthrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Architect is Away for a Year
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 09:44:33 AM »
If they won’t give you that much flexibility after years of service, are they really a client you care about keeping?  😉


I agree with Tom.  Three years notice, they should work with you or they are not really a client that I would want.