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John Mayhugh

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Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2020, 12:38:23 PM »
Sean,

The pond is large (look at google maps) and is in play to the left of the 1st hole on the 3rd nine and as a carry over the edge from the back tee on the 9th hole on the main eighteen.

Portmarnock is built on an aquifer and there was always a very small pond there that had been dug for irrigation way back in the day. This has been increased in size about twenty-fold.

Ally
Large is an understatement. Nearly an acre.

David McIntosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #126 on: May 08, 2020, 06:21:45 PM »
On the Hillside work, are the open sand/waste areas on the 18th the only examples of this on the course or is the club planning to roll them out on other holes too? Will be a bit odd if they’re only doing this to one hole like the 9th at Gullane. That looked completely out of place and was no surprise it didn’t last long.

The near waste area isn’t really relevant from a playability standpoint as it’s right below the raised teeing areas and would only catch a duffed shot.


Michael Wolf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2021, 10:00:05 AM »
Reading about the new work at Royal Porthcawl on another thread was another reminder of how spot on I thought Tim Gallant's original post was when he started this thread a couple of years ago. GB&I GCA seems to continue to be in the middle of a nasty episode of temporary insanity. Fingers crossed it ends soon.


Michael



 

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2021, 01:08:00 PM »

I’ll post this here because it relates to M&E work.
 
I played Western Gailes on Wednesday in a competition and noticed some significant changes. I had heard about them the day before from someone not affiliated with the club, but who suggested that everyone loved them. I offer this as an account of what I saw on a given day; those of you with more experience of the course (both playing it and knowing its history) can contextualize said alterations.
 
The club had begun making changes by the time I first played it in September 2020. These seemed to involve relocating fairway bunkers; blow-outs replaced rivetted pots. I think most of these new bunkers sit about 240-270 yards from the tips. I may have a depth-perception issue, but it seemed that “pairs of bunkers” confuse the eye. They appear to sit right alongside each other when in fact the inside bunker is 30 yards further forward. I appreciate that because I like the mental challenge of the course asking “are you sure?” as you hit your shot.
 
They appear to have removed several greenside bunkers in favor of swales.
 
The banks of the burn that runs in front of the 10th and 16th greens has (I think) been reinforced with railroad sleepers. That material may be appropriate given the railway line bordering the course. It looked quite new and jarring. It will likely weather. The 16th green has, I think been extended towards the burn. From where I played my approach, it looked like the green was right up against the burn. Given that the turf was quite new, much of it was marked GUR. I couldn’t distinguish green from fairway. My playing partner’s caddie suggested it was an entirely new green.
 
The ridge/earthwall on 17 is gone, at least where it split the fairway. It has been replaced by humpy-bumpy fairway. I could not see the bottom of the flag from 200+ yards out to a back hole location, but you would not call it a blind shot. I have no idea whether the ridge was man-made, and if so, whether preceded golf on the property. The hole still demands a darn good long iron, but the challenge of the blind shot, which I consider a mental challenge has gone. It’s not as bad a prospect as, say, NBWL or Prestwick removing 6 feet from the high points of Perfection, Point Garry (in), Himalayas, or the Alps. Perhaps there’s a valid reason, but the course has lost an iconic shot. I know I found it thrilling the one time I played it.
 
I’ve said elsewhere that I have enjoyed Western Gailes and would happily play in the said event each year. I don’t feel comfortable playing the course because I can’t hit the reliable fade that I think it demands from the tee, but I wouldn’t shy away from it.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #129 on: May 14, 2021, 04:03:08 AM »
JJ

You've described the changes but aside from no. 17, I'm not sure whether you think them good, bad or indifferent. I haven't played their lately myself so interested in seeing what they have done.

Niall

JJShanley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #130 on: May 14, 2021, 07:22:05 AM »
You're right, Niall, I did rather hedge on that part. I don't know if that's the program of work completed or if what I saw on Wednesday is part two of three, four, or five. I can't imagine that they'd build any new tees given that there's already several walk-backs. Had 17 remained untouched I'd probably say I liked it (unless someone told me that they'd spent some obscene amount of money to do it.) I hope the folks whose membership subscriptions enjoy it. I'd happily play this tournament each year if the club continues to host.


I'd describe the course's character as "do you dare to take a particular line, given that you can't always see what's there?" That's my take of 1-12. 13-18 is flatter, I think. After that it becomes a case of "is that railway line in your way?" (Narrator: It was. Twice.) If that's the case then greenside bunker removal doesn't bother me too much. But I'll leave that to someone with more than two visits to say.


I'm looking at google maps to give an example of a greenside bunker that they've removed. One example is short-left of the 11th green. I can imagine that was a tough recovery shot, given that it's 50 feet (significantly uphill) to the green on the map I see. The elite player probably won't end up there too often. The less accomplished player might. In my first round there in 2020 I want to say that I was either in it or too close for comfort. A chip from there isn't exactly easy, but I'd expect to make 6 or better.


Short right on 5 is another removal, I think.


I recall someone in a restoration thread saying something like "don't remove bunkers that challenge the lesser player, because they deserve the chance for to pull off the heroic shot." I think this related to fairway bunkers. You can only play out of so many bunkers in two rounds, so I'm working with a small sample size. If pushed, I'd say that the greenside bunkers removals make the course less penal. This may even make for more interesting recovery options. I wouldn't know as most of that turf was marked GUR, so I wouldn't have played from such spots anyway. I'll go out on a limb here and say these removals do not detract from the architecture. The general contours still demand you take a particular line for approach shots; you just play from turf (at ground level) if you take an aggressive line but miss. You might even have a chip from a worse position (and worse lie) than a bunker. For all I know, the club had added these bunkers in recent decades to "toughen it up"; the removal may be entirely appropriate. I simply don't know.


The 16th green will take time to settle. Given that it flows along a semi-circle path around the green (originally 25 yards short of the green) and is dead straight either side, I might assume that the club rerouted it at some point in the past. It's not as dramatic as, say, Turnberry-Ailsa 16, but jarring given the sleepers installed and their fresh coat of creosote. From where I played (left semi rough, 150 yards out) it looked like the hole was right by the hazard. It wasn't. That might be my eyesight though. As I say the fairway bunkers had a similar effect.


I've seen or played other examples of recent M&E work. It looks new because it is new and in one case it's just flat out different to what was there before. The one example I have in my mind looks out of place. The work at WG seems more appropriate.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #131 on: October 29, 2021, 08:26:41 AM »
Apologies for linking to one of my own articles but thought this might sit best here:


https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/digital/magazine/issue66/44/

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2021, 08:35:16 AM »
Ally

No need to apologise, a very good read. I'll make further comment when I get a chance but in the meantime let me say I enjoyed the oblique reference to Melvyn  ;D

Niall

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wake up UK&I!
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2021, 09:03:40 AM »
Nice article Ally.
Keeping up with Murphy's and MacGregor's is becoming as common as wiping out the Jones' over here.
Often times improvement, but not without the risk of homogonization.


I shed a tear at the loss of the old, charming Narin and Portnoo of 25 years ago....
but that ship began sailing many years ago.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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