Has Lawsonia become "Overhyped?"

[PCCraig]

I have long been a bit of a cheerleader for the Links Course at Lawsonia. Holes such as the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 17th get my golf juices flowing.


10-15 years ago Lawsonia was firmly in the "undiscovered" sect of the golf world. Sure, golf nerds like ourselves knew about it, and we even hosted big group events like the 2011 Mashie at the course. We used to go up there from Chicago around the same time and play all day on an empty course on Columbus Day for $60 with a cart.


Now that Wisconsin has exploded as a golf destination between Kohler, Erin Hills, and Sand Valley it seems more and more people are making Lawsonia a stop on their tour.


This past week a friend of mine texted me that his group of 12 left the course feeling it was "overhyped" primarily due to its high magazine rankings (23rd best public perhaps?). I have a hard time thinking anyone who enjoys classic golf course architecture could leave the Links course for the first time feeling underwhelmed, unless of course it's now become a victim of it's own success??

[Tom_Doak]

You could retitle your thread  "Learning to live with Expectations" 


Seriously, it's all a matter of opinion, so the more people that are asked to agree with your opinion, the more dissenters there will be.  It did better when it wasn't hyped as a thing, and people who didn't totally buy the hype of the other places fell into it as an alternative.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Maybe your buddies would have thought better of it with a $250+ green fee...;-)...and $8.00 beers.


I think the hype around Lawsonia is as much about its price/performance factor as it is about its architectural merits.
Green fees are around $75.00 for summer weekends and cheaper at other times.


$98.00 with a cart  on a Langford/Moreau beauty.


Overhyped? Only if you dont like sub-$100 golf...

[Mike Hendren]

8

[jeffwarne]

You could retitle your thread  "Learning to live with Expectations" 


Seriously, it's all a matter of opinion, so the more people that are asked to agree with your opinion, the more dissenters there will be.  It did better when it wasn't hyped as a thing, and people who didn't totally buy the hype of the other places fell into it as an alternative.

In many ways, the more hidden gems are hyped, the more on occasionally becomes over run. (Ballybunion courtesy of Tom Watson years ago, North Berwick, Cruit etc.)
But the reality is, Tom's Confidential Guide, Finnegan and Coyne's Scotland and Ireland books, Golfclubatlas, Sean Arble etc. have unearthed and exposed so many gems at a faster rate than most can be over run.
So for every one perhaps over exposed, we have dozens to move on to greener pastures of discovery and genuine "local: low key experiences.


It also comes down to what floats your boat.
I'll take the "over hyped" Lawsonia low key public course change shoes in the lot experience, $100 including lunch, drinks etc. experience over the $400+++ over the top experience at the high ened nearby resorts any day.Even if comped at one, neither or both.


 The higher end experience certainly won't take any less time, or be any more relaxing.

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks

[Ronald Montesano]

No.

Not in the slightest.

Overhyped means did not produce or changed what got it there.

Lawsonia offers a chill vibe from the moment you arrive at the parking lot. You bring your own clubs to cart or motorcycle; you pay your inexpensive green fee; you chat with a starter who doesn't overwork you for a tip; you play a fncking amazing golf course; you have a local beer in the clubhouse after the round.

[John Kavanaugh]

No.

Not in the slightest.

Overhyped means did not produce or changed what got it there.

Lawsonia offers a chill vibe from the moment you arrive at the parking lot. You bring your own clubs to cart or motorcycle; you pay your inexpensive green fee; you chat with a starter who doesn't overwork you for a tip; you play a fncking amazing golf course; you have a local beer in the clubhouse after the round.

A perfect example on how to overhype a course. That sounds horrible.

[Carl Rogers]

Doesn't "overhype" mean fails to deliver the quality promised?  Does Lawsonia come up short?


I hope travel there to find out.

[Brett Meyer]

No; it's a great golf course. I thought that it was the best of all the destination courses in Wisconsin although that's certainly debatable. It deserves a spot in the top 20 public courses in the country.


A few things make Lawsonia great. It has a lot of great holes. Every hole on the front nine is at least very good and several (esp. 5-6) are great. That's because the bunker placement and shaping and green contours are some of the best that I've seen. I've never seen anything like the 5th green and there are many other very good ones.


But one maybe less-appreciated thing that I like about Lawsonia is the economy of presentation. There are a good amount of bunkers, but they're always in interesting places. There are almost no bunkers in uninteresting places. Often it's the tilt of the ground more than any of the bunkers that makes a hole interesting. The first is one of my favorite openers because it's a much easier approach into the steeply pitched green if you play up the right side, near the long grass. Now I recognize that there was a lot of pretty heavy earthmoving at Lawsonia for its time and it's not really minimalist. But most of these earth works look much more severe from the opposite side. They blend into the surroundings well from the line of play.


I played Lawsonia on the same trip as Sand Valley and have also played Whistling Straits and it's nice to have a course that is simpler in presentation. Those courses also have very interesting bunker placement and green contours, but then have a million other things going on. It doesn't mean that they're better, but I like courses like Lawsonia and the Loop which have less, but well-thought-out 'stuff.'

[John Mayhugh]

Last year, with covid reducing travel, I played a lot more golf in my area, sometimes revisiting places I had not been too in several years. For many of the rounds, a good friend of mine went along. He grew up playing most of his golf at his home club, and had not seen a large variety of courses. We found out he's as interested in seeing golf courses as I am, so had a lot of fun playing new (to him) places and talking about likes and dislikes.

Back in July, we took a short trip up to Chicago and Wisconsin, playing these courses:
Skokie, Shoreacres, Exmoor, Sandbox, Sand Valley, Lawsonia, Erin Hills, Eagle Springs, & Olympia Fields North (in the rain).

His favorite of the trip was Shoreacres (no great shock there). But I was actually a little surprised that his number two choice was Lawsonia. He had researched all of the courses to some extent, so was aware of rankings. He just thought the course was a lot of fun to play and enjoyed the boldness of the design. One of our trips last year was to Harrison Hills, so not his first exposure to L&M. I don't think Lawsonia is overhyped when it comes to the golf course, but if you're expecting a full resort experience, you will be very disappointed. I just don't value that aspect very much.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I think undiscovered gems are a casualty of the last 30 years of gca interest, and the last 20 years of the internet age, no?

[Buck Wolter]

 When you hear about the new clubhouse, on-site lodging, brewpub and that Craig Haltom is no longer the consulting architect you can get concerned. It seems like a great UK course that exists for the locals and puts up with visitors but doesn't bend over backwards for them.

[Jason Thurman]

I think back to my time living in Wisconsin, before the trees had been cleared, when conditions always tended a little on the soft side, and when nobody really seemed to care that it made the Top 100 Classic in some magazine. It didn't have much publicity back then, but it did have the endorsement of literally every golfer who had ever played it. Without exception, the unwashed masses declared it "just a ton of fun" and a place that "you gotta go play."


I guess I just think that if you leave Lawsonia thinking about whether it justifies its spot on a list you saw, you've kinda missed the point. It's a blast to play, and a puzzle that takes a lot of trips around to reveal its subtleties. Let go of the numbers and just play.


Although admittedly, I do wish you could have an interesting and well-thought out conversation about how it compares to other Midwestern courses of similar presentation...

[Bill Seitz]

Craig Haltom is no longer the consulting architect...

Since when?  I tried a google search and nothing came up.  They were just touting the work on the Woodlands Course as recently as April.  Oliphant still lists him on their site, and the same site has Lawsonia splashed all over its management page. 


I could see people thinking Lawsonia is overhyped if they expected first class high end DF treatment, which you won't get there.  Or if they just expect something maybe less unique from the architecture.  Missing a green by a feet and having a recovery pitch to a green 25 feet above the ball can be polarizing.  But it certainly delivers what the pictures promise (maybe to a bit larger scale).  Maybe they've had a bad year maintenance wise, but it was perfect at this time last year.

[Dan Smoot]

I have long been a bit of a cheerleader for the Links Course at Lawsonia. Holes such as the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 15th, and 17th get my golf juices flowing.


10-15 years ago Lawsonia was firmly in the "undiscovered" sect of the golf world. Sure, golf nerds like ourselves knew about it, and we even hosted big group events like the 2011 Mashie at the course. We used to go up there from Chicago around the same time and play all day on an empty course on Columbus Day for $60 with a cart.


Now that Wisconsin has exploded as a golf destination between Kohler, Erin Hills, and Sand Valley it seems more and more people are making Lawsonia a stop on their tour.


This past week a friend of mine texted me that his group of 12 left the course feeling it was "overhyped" primarily due to its high magazine rankings (23rd best public perhaps?). I have a hard time thinking anyone who enjoys classic golf course architecture could leave the Links course for the first time feeling underwhelmed, unless of course it's now become a victim of it's own success??

I learned about Lawsonia from this site and made a change in my schedule to visit after Sand Valley.  It was a great decision.  I thought I stepped back in time to play a course like many have shared on GCA of its era.  I had a great experience.  It started with my experience with the starter who took the time to provide history behind the course.  I thought the course was just fantastic with many great design features that you just don't see on more modern courses.  I felt in no way it was "overhyped".  I left there thinking "Did I really enjoy this more than Sand Valley."  I think I did.

[Terry Lavin]

Better to be “overhyped” than to only be recognized by the architectural cognoscenti as a hidden gem.

[Buck Wolter]

Craig Haltom is no longer the consulting architect...

Since when?  I tried a google search and nothing came up.  They were just touting the work on the Woodlands Course as recently as April.  Oliphant still lists him on their site, and the same site has Lawsonia splashed all over its management page. 

That's a selective quote -- go back and read again -- it was when to worry

[Tim Martin]

I haven’t played Lawsonia but it’s hard to believe it’s overhyped from the comments contained in this thread which are all positive.

[Bill Seitz]

That's a selective quote -- go back and read again -- it was when to worry

Gotcha.  I blame the author. 

[John Kavanaugh]

I haven’t played Lawsonia but it’s hard to believe it’s overhyped from the comments contained in this thread which are all positive.

Doesn’t the fact that it is underpriced in its own market prove that it is overhyped.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I haven’t played Lawsonia but it’s hard to believe it’s overhyped from the comments contained in this thread which are all positive.

Doesn’t the fact that it is underpriced in its own market prove that it is overhyped.

Have your milk and cookie, then please go back under your bridge for your nap while F-Troop and Mr. Ed are on in the background....

[John Kavanaugh]

This reminds me of when Dr. Klein removed Apache Stronghold from the America’s Best list. The course had become so overhyped that it had become an embarrassment to the magazine.

[J_ Crisham]

Pat,
    I've long thought that the separation between Chicago Golf and Lawsonia is only as significant as the maintenance budgets, volume of play, and mystique points. One could certainly argue Lawsonia is a far superior piece of property . Green complexes and bunkering are roughly equal.
    I use this comparison to ask the question: Is CGC overhyped? Or are both Lawsonia and CGC simply as good as it gets? Or just different animals with vastly different business models?

[Kalen Braley]

I haven’t played Lawsonia but it’s hard to believe it’s overhyped from the comments contained in this thread which are all positive.

Doesn’t the fact that it is underpriced in its own market prove that it is overhyped.

John,

I think that's a fair question.  Never been there, but seems to me based on its location it has to do a balancing act being sandwiched in between the Kohler offerings and Sand Valley.  So how to attract ample out-of-region/bucket list golfers while at the same time not alienating its regional base in Appleton, Fond Du Lac, Madison, or even Milwaukee peeps who may not bite at  $200+ green fees.

It'd be interesting to see if they formally track that...