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Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2021, 12:27:05 PM »
The only way a reasonable number of amateurs play >46" drivers is if one of the large manufacturers have it as a stock option. I know that drivers have been getting longer and longer, but have any of the OEM's gone that long yet? I believe that the number of amateurs that are putting custom shafts into their drivers is quite small, the number putting x-long shafts in even less.


Titleist's driver offering for higher handicappers (TSi1) comes stock with a 45.75" shaft. Their other offerings are 45.5". Ping is 45.75" across the board. So bone stock drivers are already bumping up against 46".
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2021, 02:04:02 PM »
George Bayer, George Archer, Peter Oosterhuis to name just three unusually tall guys who in the era of wooden heads and steel shafts seemed to do alright. Jim Barnes and Ted Ray from an earlier period too. Not sure they used super long shafted Drivers.
And with modern adjustable hosels etc there’s likely no need for special boring of wooden heads, loft and lie machines and bending bars.

 :)
Atb

Perhaps the natural swing plane of these golfers allowed them to get by with the equipment. Or, perhaps they were able to modify their natural swing plane to get by and still have some success. By limiting the length of the shaft, are you not forcing them to use a more upright swing that could present problems with them obtaining their optimal game?

Did these governing bodies consult with knowledgeable club fitters before coming up with such a rule? It would appear that they are trying to get ahead of the curve on technology production. I.e., since standard driver lengths are creeping up on 46", they are just putting a line in the sand.

The world population is growing taller and taller. Shall we get the United Nations to put a limit on the height you are allowed to grow to? Will there be a new medical speciality to shorten people?  ::)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2021, 01:09:36 AM »
George Bayer, George Archer, Peter Oosterhuis to name just three unusually tall guys who in the era of wooden heads and steel shafts seemed to do alright. Jim Barnes and Ted Ray from an earlier period too. Not sure they used super long shafted Drivers.
And with modern adjustable hosels etc there’s likely no need for special boring of wooden heads, loft and lie machines and bending bars.

 :)
Atb

Yep, I think you are missing the point.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2021, 01:38:21 PM »
This represents blatant discrimination against ludicrously tall golfers.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2021, 10:03:40 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

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Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2021, 10:24:05 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.


and now a local rule is proposed to suggest he use a driver two inches shorter than a 5 foot 4 LPGA star currently uses.
Practically speaking it's much ado about nothing,which is pretty much exactly what they've perfected.
Interesting how the latest "groove rule", "don't anchor to that body part but OK with the other" kerfuffle has managed to get under the skin equally of both the bifucation/rollback crowd and the no regulation crowd.

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2021, 08:42:59 AM »
and now a local rule is proposed to suggest he use a driver two inches shorter than a 5 foot 4 LPGA star currently uses.
If the rules were 50" before, who's to say Brooke wouldn't have been using a 50" driver, and you could have this same conversation if the limit was dropped to 48"?

How does a tall player hit a wedge, if they "need" a 48" driver? Do you even know what the length of the kid's driver is now?

The point is there was always a limit. Now it's a slightly different limit, and they've done this before it became more popular to use > 46" drivers.

P.S. Using Brooke is a bit disingenuous, because as you know she grips down on every club, and has every club built long, because she grew up playing longer clubs and gripping down, so she just likes it that way. It likely won't affect the actual playing length of her clubs.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2021, 08:56:35 AM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2021, 10:39:56 AM »
and now a local rule is proposed to suggest he use a driver two inches shorter than a 5 foot 4 LPGA star currently uses.


How does a tall player hit a wedge, if they "need" a 48" driver? Do you even know what the length of the kid's driver is now?






So an 8 foot tall player can't use a 47 inch driiver because his wedge is shorter?
Pretty sure they are trying to accomplish different planes and different arcs with the the two extremes in clubs, and at some point a very tall player with short arms might have a problem with a mandated shaft length(purely hypothetically).
48 inch driver is just arbitrary garbage that effects hardly anyone, and does nothing at all to "protect classic courses", as very, very few use a long driver, yet still courses are routinely too small in scale for both elite competition and safety(which is of course a matter of opinion).
Just the USGA howling at the moon as if they're actually doing something.
The ship sailed, I'm on your team now, as is just about every old fart who ever gave a darn about the integrity of the game 20 plus years ago, who got old and needs the distance and/or is tired of the battle/accepted the outcome and the rest can't remember a time when their driver didn't rebound and their ball had no tradeoffs involving distance and spin-so they certainly aren't on board with real change.


If 48 inch drivers, or anchored putters(the "bad"(chest) kind, not the "OK"(armlock) kind were deskilling the game, everybody would've been doing it, and they're not.
Just more howling at the moon, to avoid real regulation without 20 more years of study.


The other thing is it does nothing for the long and wrong high speed 6 handicap who uses a 48 inch driver to threaten homes and other golfers, as it's merely an adopted local rule, or a "condition of competition" for certain events.




« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 06:11:46 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2021, 11:19:24 AM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
Ben Hogan 5'8"
Jack Nicklaus 5'10"
Greg Norman 6'0"
Phil Mickelson 6'3"
Dustin Johnson 6'6"
See any trend?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2021, 12:22:44 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
Ben Hogan 5'8"
Jack Nicklaus 5'10"
Greg Norman 6'0"
Phil Mickelson 6'3"
Dustin Johnson 6'6"
See any trend?


Garland of all people, you cherry picking data?  ;D

How about this:

Collin Morikawa: 5'9"
Rory McIlroy: 5'9"
Louis Oosthuzien: 5' 10"
Xander Schauffele: 5'10"
Abrham Ancer: 5'7"
Tyrell Hatton: 5'9"

All ranked in the top 20 in the world right now.

P.S.  DJ's listed height is 6'4"




Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2021, 01:22:01 PM »
Lie angle.
Atb

Padraig Dooley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2021, 05:45:51 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
Ben Hogan 5'8"
Jack Nicklaus 5'10"
Greg Norman 6'0"
Phil Mickelson 6'3"
Dustin Johnson 6'6"
See any trend?
Dustin Johnson is not 6 foot 6.
Driver length fitting is done on the ability to hit the centre of the club and not posture. In order to maintain the same posture as seen in a standard 37 inch 7 iron, the driver would be 43.5 inches, so allowing for a golfer who needs 2 inches longer in their irons, a 46 inch driver is still long enough.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2021, 07:51:23 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
Ben Hogan 5'8"
Jack Nicklaus 5'10"
Greg Norman 6'0"
Phil Mickelson 6'3"
Dustin Johnson 6'6"
See any trend?


Garland of all people, you cherry picking data?  ;D

How about this:

Collin Morikawa: 5'9"
Rory McIlroy: 5'9"
Louis Oosthuzien: 5' 10"
Xander Schauffele: 5'10"
Abrham Ancer: 5'7"
Tyrell Hatton: 5'9"

All ranked in the top 20 in the world right now.

P.S.  DJ's listed height is 6'4"

I had always heard Dustin was 6'6". Didn't bother to check him.

Think about your post. It is totally irrelevant to what I posted. Try and do better in the future.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2021, 08:09:30 PM »
Just saw that an AJGA top golfer is a 6' 10" 17 year old Tommy Morrison.
Garland, are you saying that a rule shouldn't be introduced because it mightn't suit one person?
Ben Hogan 5'8"
Jack Nicklaus 5'10"
Greg Norman 6'0"
Phil Mickelson 6'3"
Dustin Johnson 6'6"
See any trend?
Dustin Johnson is not 6 foot 6.
Driver length fitting is done on the ability to hit the centre of the club and not posture. In order to maintain the same posture as seen in a standard 37 inch 7 iron, the driver would be 43.5 inches, so allowing for a golfer who needs 2 inches longer in their irons, a 46 inch driver is still long enough.

Except of course, that almost no male golfer is fit to a 43.5 inch driver. Can you name one on the PGA Tour?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2021, 09:20:23 PM »
Drivers are longer because the materials and engineering allow for it...not because DJ is taller than Hogan. Stop!




This story is about the USGA deciding to use Local Rules as a bifurcation and potential roll back strategy. Any thoughts on that?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2021, 10:45:17 PM »
Drivers are longer because the materials and engineering allow for it...not because DJ is taller than Hogan. Stop!




This story is about the USGA deciding to use Local Rules as a bifurcation and potential roll back strategy. Any thoughts on that?

So, your position equates to saying DJ would be as effective with Hogan's driver as he is with the driver he has been fitted with. I.e., if the whole tour used Hogan era equipment, DJ would still be able to ascend to #1.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Shots Fired USGA/R&A give length “The Shaft” Classic Course Win?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2021, 11:53:16 AM »
So an 8 foot tall player can't use a 47 inch driiver because his wedge is shorter?
That's not what I asked.


48 inch driver is just arbitrary garbage that effects hardly anyone
Also true of 46".


Just the USGA howling at the moon as if they're actually doing something.
It was something. It was easy. Rollbackers will complain if they don't do anything and, apparently, even when they do.


If 48 inch drivers, or anchored putters(the "bad"(chest) kind, not the "OK"(armlock) kind were deskilling the game, everybody would've been doing it, and they're not.
Not yet.



Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, Garland, and Chris.

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